Republicans Clash Over Rape and Incest Exception for Abortion


#1

Republicans Clash Over Rape and Incest Exception for Abortion

Maya Rhodan @m_rhodan Feb. 6, 2016 Time

Republicans presidential candidates clashed Saturday over whether pro-life candidates should allow women who are victims of rape or incest to have the option of abortion, a position that has traditionally been adopted by the party’s nominees.

On one side, Florida Sen. Marco Rubio broke with party orthodoxy and said he hoped to ban abortion as an option even in cases of rape and incest. “If I’m president and there’s a bill that’s passed that saves lives but it has exceptions, I’ll sign it,” Rubio said. “But I do believe deeply that all human life is worthy of the protection of laws. I’ve already said, for me, the issue of life is not a political issue and I want to be frank. I would rather lose an election than be wrong on the issue of life.”

On the other side, former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush and New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie said Rubio’s position was wrong as both a matter of policy and politics. “I think we have to be cognizant of the fact there’s a lot of people that are concerned about having a pro-life position without any exceptions,” said Bush.


#2

If we can’t agree on basic principles, the pro-choice side will continue to win.

Why is someone pro-life?


#3

I have often seen or heard it said that Democratic politicians should be refused the Eucharist for not abiding by the Church’s teaching on abortion with regard to their public positions. That it is not enough for them to hold a personal view in line with Church teaching and a different one in the public arena. Yet here you have 3 Catholic Republicans who also as a matter of public policy hold political views not fully in line with the Church teaching. Bush and Christie favor exceptions for rape, incest and the mother. Rubio for the mother. Yet I haven’t seen anyone call for them not to present themselves for Communion.


#4

According to Canon Law, someone that is in manifest grave sin cannot be given Holy Communion. If this is to be followed, all politicians that support abortion in any circumstance (including the Republican candidates) are to be barred from receiving. The Democrats usually are more vocal about these positions so I suppose it calls more attention to them, but the Republican candidates should also be barred from Holy Communion. If there is silence about this, then it just shows the current attitude of much of the clergy.


#5

I don’t know if the pro-choice side is winning; abortion is not illegal but many clinics have shut down, Planned Parenthood is de-funded in many states. Those are victories. Victories at the national level are few but plentiful per states. Mississippi, Missouri both have but one clinic. So it depends on how one defines victory.


#6

I believe the Church’s position on the life of the mother has been clarified before. It’s kind of difficult to explain on national television in eight seconds or less without getting lost in the weeds. We are allowed to save the life of the mother, as long as the intention is not to directly kill the child.


#7

I believe abortion is largely being removed to the privacy of the home via abortion drugs like RU486. It’s simply becoming less visible. But yes, you are correct, they are victories and I am not demeaning those victories. It just means we have to go pray in front of the places where they dispense the pills, or in front of IVF clinics where they eliminate unwanted embryos.


#8

First of all, what exactly do you mean by “exception for the mother”?

Secondly, I don’t see where Rubio is wrong. Church teaching is that abortion is wrong in all circumstances. What exactly isn’t in line with Church teaching?

Thirdly, “I’m personally opposed, but…” is ********.


#9

There is disagreement about this issue, and if people believe that life begins at conception, then why should the protection you believe should exist for babies conceived not in rape or incest, also not be extended to protect babies conceived through rape or incest?

But what about Democrats? How about Democrats are asked where exactly they stand on abortion? Specific questions. Do they believe abortion should be taxpayer funded? Do they believe there should be any limits on when a baby can be aborted - did Roe v Wade go far enough? Etc. As Callum Borchers of The Washington Post says, “The media, in general — and debate moderators, in particular — should demand more answers.”


#10

It depends what Rubio means for “life of the mother”. Church teaching allows medical treatment if the mother is seriously in jeopardy, where the unfortunate secondary effect is the death of the baby (i.e. removing a diseased fallopian tube which has an ectopic pregnancy) but does not allow for direct abortion.

That said, his position on abortion is astronomically better than those on the Democratic side. As are the positions of Jeb and Christie (although he has be all over the place on abortion in the past).

I agree that all of their bishops should speak to them privately, tell them to get their views in line with Church teaching, or refrain from Communion (assuming Rubio’s is actually out of line). If they persist, then their bishops should publicly bar them from receiving communion.

As to the underlying point of your post, of course on here you will hear less condemnation of their views, as the biggest problems always get the most attention. Jeb, Christie and maybe Rubio oppose 98+% of all abortions. Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders support 100% of abortions. The majority of focus is going to be on them.

And a Catholic in good faith can vote for any of those 3 over the other 2 Dem candidates, but a faithful Catholic cannot vote for either of the 2 Dem candidates over any of those 3 GOP candidates.


#11

While I am absolutely opposed to abortion, there are circumstances where it may not be avoidable. There are few cases in which the life of the mother is at risk (notice I did not say health of the mother), and in those cases we must attempt to save them both. All this is very much a medical question and most of us don’t know the ins and outs of delivery. Sometimes these cases arise without warning and a physician does the best he can to save both.

And if any of us who are pro-life think we are going to get what we want in one fell swoop I think he are kidding ourselves. Sometimes you can only take small steps, one at a time, to reach the conclusion we seek.


#12

At the same time, Rubio co-sponsored a bill, in fact, the 20 week pain-capable act, along with 40 other representatives and senators allowing for exceptions to rape and incest. So, there is that as well. But in this conversation, one realizes that politics is also about compromising, if one holds out for everything, they often get nothing back in return.

politifact.com/florida/statements/2015/aug/07/marco-rubio/rubio-said-hes-never-advocated-abortion-exceptions/ I have seen the original bill quoted and generally, know politifact is not faultless, he co-sponsored that bill so, it could be said he was going along with it without making it a specific stand of his.


#13

Yeah, but where D politicians are 100% bad, these guys are only 10% bad.

And I see no reason why we can’t hold them to D politician standards.

I mean, Rubio is at least mostly pro-life. What’s funny is, that 10% will get some Republican Catholics to actually voting against him. Whereas Bernie and Hillary could eat a baby on live TV while shouting praises to Satan and 99% of Catholic Democrats will just mention something about the poor and seamless garments and pull the D handle.


#14

Whether one who supports abortion should be denied communion should be between them and their pastor.


#15

I’m trying to figure out what Marco Rubio means. If he means there should be an exception in the law and it be a legal right for the mother to obtain a direct abortion to protect herself? If so, then as with the other 2 Catholic Republicans in the race who include exceptions for rape and incest, he too wouldn’t be in line with Church teaching, right? Even though he personally would be opposed to a woman in his personal family making such a choice to protect herself. As Bush and Christie would personally be opposed to someone in theirs choosing to abort a pregnancy resulting from rape or incest.


#16

To kill the baby because of the sins of the father is NOT the right answer. Do you really think God would condone that?? We need to help both Mother and Baby. And Pro-Life people do just that!! Bring the father to justice!! God Bless, Memaw


#17

What I’d really like, and pro-baby murder folks can never seem to provide this, is actual statistics on this issue. How common is this anyway? The way they talk about it makes it seem like an everyday occurrence.


#18

I’ve seen this to be an ongoing debate here on CAF because it doesn’t seem as clear or cut and dried as that to some as it does to you and others.

The bishops say in their Faithful Citizenship Guide that during election years, there may be many handouts and voter guides that are produced and distributed. We encourage Catholics to seek those resources authorized by their own bishops, their state Catholic conferences, and the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.

And in it say a Catholic cannot vote for a candidate who favors a policy promoting an intrinsically evil act, such as abortion, euthanasia, assisted suicide, deliberately subjecting workers or the poor to subhuman living conditions, redefining marriage in ways that violate its essential meaning, or racist behavior, **if the voter’s intent is to support that position.
**

usccb.org/issues-and-action/faithful-citizenship/forming-consciences-for-faithful-citizenship-part-one.cfm

But I have little doubt the debate will continue throughout this, another election year.

Peace


#19

Rubio is the strongest prolife candidate running.

No one else is close.


#20

Thank you. But I’m not sure I understand your last sentence. Are you saying if clergy (and laity for that matter) who say for example that Democratic VP Joseph Biden or Leader Pelosi on the Democratic side of the House should not receive, but then don’t say the same about Bush and Christie whose public policy position on abortion we can agree is not in line with teaching either ( Rubio we don’t know about because he was not clear Saturday on what he means about an exception for the mother), that their silence shows favoritism to Republicans?


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