Requesting someone be let go


#1

What moral considerations should be made before signing a petition, etc., demanding that someone (who does their job poorly) be fired?


#2

How about what common sense considerations should be engaged before signing such a petition?

One is free to look for a job elsewhere. Signing a petition, or for that matter, even letting it be known that one is considering such a process, can be a short route to a pink slip. Management most generally does not take kindly to being told that parties known or unknown are suggesting that management is not doing its job - and that is whether or not management is doing its job.

With the current state of the economy and the size of the pool of unemployed, there are plenty of candidates to fill an empty position. That should give one pause as to whether or not one wants to tell management how to do its job.

The moral position is to do one's job to the best of one's ability, to give fair work for fair wages. It is not one's moral duty to instruct management on how they should do their job.


#3

[quote="otjm, post:2, topic:327322"]
How about what common sense considerations should be engaged before signing such a petition?

One is free to look for a job elsewhere. Signing a petition, or for that matter, even letting it be known that one is considering such a process, can be a short route to a pink slip. Management most generally does not take kindly to being told that parties known or unknown are suggesting that management is not doing its job - and that is whether or not management is doing its job.

With the current state of the economy and the size of the pool of unemployed, there are plenty of candidates to fill an empty position. That should give one pause as to whether or not one wants to tell management how to do its job.

The moral position is to do one's job to the best of one's ability, to give fair work for fair wages. It is not one's moral duty to instruct management on how they should do their job.

[/quote]

Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately that doesn't really fit this situation at all... I suppose I should provide more specifics of the situation. The potential petition signers are students at a school. The poor quality employee is a teacher who has made the activity he teaches (extracurricular activity that is offered as a class) so miserable that no one wants to participate in it next year. Students are now threatening not to join this activity if he isn't fired. The problem is, with a school of our size, this threat would most likely cause the activity to cease to exist. So, with that said, administration might actually fire him over this petition.


#4

[quote="PHSshamrock, post:3, topic:327322"]
Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately that doesn't really fit this situation at all... I suppose I should provide more specifics of the situation. The potential petition signers are students at a school. The poor quality employee is a teacher who has made the activity he teaches (extracurricular activity that is offered as a class) so miserable that no one wants to participate in it next year. Students are now threatening not to join this activity if he isn't fired. The problem is, with a school of our size, this threat would most likely cause the activity to cease to exist. So, with that said, administration might actually fire him over this petition.

[/quote]

Since the matter seems possibly headed towards self-correction, I would maintain my position. Unless he is doing something immoral, you do not have a duty to form or sign any petition. And if the matter is so bad, it would be better for the parents of the students to take up that matter with the school administration - no offense, but they are much more likely to be seen as credible than the students. I have seen this issue far more than once or twice. The most effective means of dealing with it is if no one signs up.

Furthermore, whether it is due to students not signing up, or to parents objecting to his teaching methods, or a student petition, the risk is the same - if he goes, the class may still not be offered in the future. That is a risk no matter what method is used.


#5

[quote="PHSshamrock, post:1, topic:327322"]
What moral considerations should be made before signing a petition, etc., demanding that someone (who does their job poorly) be fired?

[/quote]

What's your role and relationship with regards to this person? Are you a this person's manager? Are you in a position where it is actually part of your duties to evaluate a person's performance?


#6

Something I learned from my father, who immigrated to the US from Germany during the political chaos there in the 1920's: " Never, ever sign any petition for any reason. What may be perfectly acceptable and politically correct today can bite you in the behind in the future."
A good example of this are all those people who were vehemently anti-war types in the 1960's are now considered with disdain by the general public. Jane Fonda, who was very vocal then is now considered to be a traitor by many.


#7

Students would be foolish to sign such a petition. Prevail upon the parents to approach the teacher and school administration.


#8

[quote="George_Stegmeir, post:6, topic:327322"]

A good example of this are all those people who were vehemently anti-war types in the 1960's are now considered with disdain by the general public. Jane Fonda, who was very vocal then is now considered to be a traitor by many.

[/quote]

Considered a traitor by who exactly?

I must have been sleeping when the Vietnam war suddenly became a proud moment in U.S. history. :confused:


#9

[quote="VeritasLuxMea, post:8, topic:327322"]
Considered a traitor by who exactly?

I must have been sleeping when the Vietnam war suddenly became a proud moment in U.S. history. :confused:

[/quote]

A proud moment in American history has nothing to do with this! If you want to know exactly who thinks Jane Fonda is a traitor? Just ask any Viet Nam veteran....including those who protested the war once they came home. I doubt that you could find one such vet (that is sane) who would support her actions during that period.
I wish I had a dime for every night time radio broadcast that woman made on behalf of the enemy, telling our troops to defect, etc. In addition, it is well known that when she did an anti-American TV propaganda piece involving American POW's, who tried to secretly give her notes for their relatives, she turned them in to the NVA's. This caused them to be beaten severely and at least one died from these beatings. This is historical fact.
No matter what ones political beliefs may be, one does not turn against ones own people in favor of an enemy. To do so is, by definition, treason.
The only reason no one was prosecuted for this during the 'Nam war was a rather gutless Presidency, and what was recognized by many Washington Officials to be a grossly unfair Draft Law! Why do you think we no longer have military conscription in this country today?


#10

[quote="PHSshamrock, post:3, topic:327322"]
Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately that doesn't really fit this situation at all... I suppose I should provide more specifics of the situation. The potential petition signers are students at a school. The poor quality employee is a teacher who has made the activity he teaches (extracurricular activity that is offered as a class) so miserable that no one wants to participate in it next year. Students are now threatening not to join this activity if he isn't fired. The problem is, with a school of our size, this threat would most likely cause the activity to cease to exist. So, with that said, administration might actually fire him over this petition.

[/quote]

I think petitions for people to be fired often come across as actions of bloodlust from a group that just wants to see someone's head on a pike.

It is better to bring the actual issues to the attention of the proper authorities rather than to presume to tell them what action they must take to correct the problem.

I agree with PaulfromIowa that the best approach would be to have parents approach the school administration. A petition doesn't seem like the best way to go.


#11

aren't there other options? Like, having a talk with the teacher in question? Trying to find out HIS point of view, why he is teaching the way he teaches, etc. We are all people and live together in this world, have been given life as a gift. We should try to talk to one another about such things. There is usually a reason why somebody has problems, says weird things, looks funny, doesn't do a job well, etc. :heart::heart::heart:


#12

i wouldnt do it


#13

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