Requirement of Kneeling


#1

After reading about the requiremnt that we kneel in between the Sanctus and the Great Amen I realized that we don't do this at my Parish. Since a bishop has attended Mass at my parish, it seems that this requirement has been lifted within my diocese. Do bishops have this authority? Thanks


#2

It is required always and everywhere to kneel, as far as I know, from the end of the Sanctus until after the consecration of the chalice. It is also the custom in many places, including many dioceses in the USA, to kneel for the entire Canon/Eucharistic Prayer.


#3

[quote="C794, post:1, topic:286984"]
After reading about the requiremnt that we kneel in between the Sanctus and the Great Amen I realized that we don't do this at my Parish. Since a bishop has attended Mass at my parish, it seems that this requirement has been lifted within my diocese. Do bishops have this authority? Thanks

[/quote]

Are you in the US? If so, there is a requirement for all parishes in all diocese in the US to kneel from the Sanctus until after the consecration. It is up to the Bishop to decide if the faithful stand after the memorial acclimation or remain kneeling until after the great Amen.

Outside of the US, the requirment is to kneel for the consecration. How much kneeling is done before and after varies by country. Each country's conference of bishops has their norms approved by the Vatican. Once approved, a Bishop cannot change them without getting permission except in cases where an option is specifically allowed in the GIRM.


#4

[quote="Corki, post:3, topic:286984"]
Are you in the US? If so, there is a requirement for all parishes in all diocese in the US to kneel from the Sanctus until after the consecration. It is up to the Bishop to decide if the faithful stand after the memorial acclimation or remain kneeling until after the great Amen.

[/quote]

Yes I'm in the US; so should I be concerned about my parish not kneeling?


#5

From the GIRM

In the Dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus (Holy, Holy, Holy) until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by ill health, or for reasons of lack of space, of the large number of people present, or for another reasonable cause. However, those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the Priest genuflects after the Consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God) unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.

Regarding what I highlighted, the best way to answer your question is go to the pastor and ask. There may be a very good reason why the parish doesn't kneel, and until you ask the people who know the answer, all you can get here is speculation and a lot of *"your priest is wrong, call the Bishop". *:rolleyes:

[quote="C794, post:4, topic:286984"]
Yes I'm in the US; so should I be concerned about my parish not kneeling?

[/quote]


#6

In the meantime, try to kneel when it's appropriate even if you're the only one.


#7

[quote="Rich_C, post:6, topic:286984"]
In the meantime, try to kneel when it's appropriate even if you're the only one.

[/quote]

I strongly disagree. Before assuming that you're right and everyone else is wrong, asking your priest is a more mature approach. I suggest that in the meantime be attentive to what the GIRM says,

However, those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the Priest genuflects after the Consecration.

This is an act people are not always aware of, in parishes where standing during the consecration is the practice.


#8

[quote="Digitonomy, post:7, topic:286984"]
I suggest that in the meantime be attentive to what the GIRM says, This is an act people are not always aware of, in parishes where standing during the consecration is the practice.

[/quote]

Thanks for the quote; people in my parish do bow during the consecration.


#9

[quote="Digitonomy, post:7, topic:286984"]
I strongly disagree. Before assuming that you're right and everyone else is wrong, asking your priest is a more mature approach.

[/quote]

I agree, Digitonomy! :thumbsup:
Again, from the GIRM

In addition to serving as a vehicle for the prayer of beings composed of body and spirit, the postures and gestures in which we engage at Mass have another very important function. The Church sees in these common postures and gestures both a symbol of the unity of those who have come together to worship and a means of fostering that unity. We are not free to change these postures to suit our own individual piety, for the Church makes it clear that our unity of posture and gesture is an expression of our participation in the one Body formed by the baptized with Christ, our head. When we stand, kneel, sit, bow and sign ourselves in common action, we given unambiguous witness that we are indeed the Body of Christ, united in heart, mind and spirit.

[quote="Digitonomy, post:7, topic:286984"]
I suggest that in the meantime be attentive to what the GIRM says, This is an act people are not always aware of, in parishes where standing during the consecration is the practice.

[/quote]

Again, I agree. Catechesis is so important. I just recently had someone tell me they had no idea they should bow before receiving communion!? :shrug::confused:


#10

[quote="Digitonomy, post:7, topic:286984"]
I strongly disagree. Before assuming that you're right and everyone else is wrong, asking your priest is a more mature approach. I suggest that in the meantime be attentive to what the GIRM says, This is an act people are not always aware of, in parishes where standing during the consecration is the practice.

[/quote]

In our town's sister parish, they dont have pews and kneelers, but chairs. So they dont kneel.

They do, however, like others have pointed out, bow at the consecration.


#11

[quote="Marie5890, post:10, topic:286984"]
In our town's sister parish, they dont have pews and kneelers, but chairs. So they dont kneel.

They do, however, like others have pointed out, bow at the consecration.

[/quote]

We don't have pews or kneelers either, just chairs,. Every one who is able kneels as directed in the rubrics. Same thing at my kids' school where their Mass is held in the student center. They use regular chairs and kneel (even the non-Catholics). The only time they don't is special larger Masses that are held in the gym. There is no kneeling for the students in the bleachers - it wouldn't be safe.


#12

I know it's been a while since this thread has been active, but I've just finally asked about the absence of kneeling. I was told that not kneeling is a parish costum. I don't really want to push the issue further because I'm going through RCIA and don't want to create any tension. This is especially due to me being in RCIA and having no possible way for me to switch Parishes for a long time I really don't want it to feel awkward there and I don't want to hurt any feelings. Is it okay if while I attend this Parish I continue not to kneel?

Right now my biggest concern is that there is something else that I'm unaware of that could invalidate my confimation or is causing the Eucharist to be invalid; in regards to these what do I need to look for?

Thanks

Oh and also I'm wondering; am I worrying to much?


#13

[quote="C794, post:12, topic:286984"]
I know it's been a while since this thread has been active, but I've just finally asked about the absence of kneeling. I was told that not kneeling is a parish costum. I don't really want to push the issue further because I'm going through RCIA and don't want to create any tension. This is especially due to me being in RCIA and having no possible way for me to switch Parishes for a long time I really don't want it to feel awkward there and I don't want to hurt any feelings. Is it okay if while I attend this Parish I continue not to kneel?

Right now my biggest concern is that there is something else that I'm unaware of that could invalidate my confimation or is causing the Eucharist to be invalid; in regards to these what do I need to look for?

Thanks

Oh and also I'm wondering; am I worrying to much?

[/quote]

You are probably worrying too much. Not kneeling will not invalidate your Confirmation or cause the Eucharist to be invalid. It takes a lot more than a few quirks of a parish to do that. The Bishop or priest delegated by the Bishop to Confirm you has a ritual to follow when he confirms. As for the Eucharist, it would have to be invalid matter, a person who is not an ordained priest trying to consecrate, the priest not saying "This is my Body" and "This is my Blood", or the priest not intending to do as the Church does.

I think sometimes that on these forums we get so caught up in discussing the details of things that we give the impression that one must always be on one's toes when attending Mass and guard against any liturgical abuse, real or perceived. Some people always seem to be on the lookout for it. This is very unhealthy spiritually. It takes the focus off of Mass, it fosters an attitude of distrust of the hierarchy, it also has led to false accusations and contributes to the distress of scrupulous people. Most of all it takes the focus off of Christ. Please do not fall into that trap--that is not of God. Do not go looking for things to go wrong or be wrong, and remember that minor abuses do not invalidate anything.

Try not to start out as a Catholic with that attitude, it will not enhance your spiritual growth at all. If abuses happen, they happen, and should not occur, but try to remember that we are dealing with human beings here who do love the Lord and sometimes make mistakes and exhibit poor judgment, not malice. Try to look at things through Christ's eyes--He is forgiving of more than we can imagine, and does not abandon us when we sin.

If there is a serious abuse, such as a priest preaching heresy, or invalid Consecrations, of course it needs to be reported through the proper channels, I am not saying liturgical abuses are ok. I'm just saying don't put your focus on looking for things you are not aware of.


#14

[quote="C794, post:12, topic:286984"]
I know it's been a while since this thread has been active, but I've just finally asked about the absence of kneeling. I was told that not kneeling is a parish costum. I don't really want to push the issue further because I'm going through RCIA and don't want to create any tension. This is especially due to me being in RCIA and having no possible way for me to switch Parishes for a long time I really don't want it to feel awkward there and I don't want to hurt any feelings. Is it okay if while I attend this Parish I continue not to kneel?

Right now my biggest concern is that there is something else that I'm unaware of that could invalidate my confimation or is causing the Eucharist to be invalid; in regards to these what do I need to look for?

Thanks

Oh and also I'm wondering; am I worrying to much?

[/quote]

You are probably worrying too much. Not kneeling will not invalidate your Confirmation or cause the Eucharist to be invalid. It takes a lot more than a few quirks of a parish to do that. The Bishop or priest delegated by the Bishop to Confirm you has a ritual to follow when he confirms. As for the Eucharist, it would have to be invalid matter, a person who is not an ordained priest trying to consecrate, the priest not saying "This is my Body" and "This is my Blood", or the priest not intending to do as the Church does.

I think sometimes that on these forums we get so caught up in discussing the details of things that we give the impression that one must always be on one's toes when attending Mass and guard against any liturgical abuse, real or perceived. Some people always seem to be on the lookout for it. This is very unhealthy spiritually. It takes the focus off of Mass, it fosters an attitude of distrust of the hierarchy, it also has led to false accusations and contributes to the distress of scrupulous people. Most of all it takes the focus off of Christ. Please do not fall into that trap--that is not of God. Do not go looking for things to go wrong or be wrong, and remember that minor abuses do not invalidate anything.

Try not to start out as a Catholic with that attitude, it will not enhance your spiritual growth at all. If abuses happen, they happen, and should not occur, but try to remember that we are dealing with human beings here who do love the Lord and sometimes make mistakes and exhibit poor judgment, not malice. Try to look at things through Christ's eyes--He is forgiving of more than we can imagine, and does not abandon us when we sin.

If there is a serious abuse, such as a priest preaching heresy, or invalid Consecrations, of course it needs to be reported through the proper channels, I am not saying liturgical abuses are ok. I'm just saying don't put your focus on looking for things you are not aware of.


#15

My parents' parish has no room for kneeling or kneelers with the seats. So they stand after the Sanctus up to the Great Amen nor do they kneel after the Agnus Dei until people go for Communion then kneel after reception until the Blessed Sacrament is put back in the tabernacle.

I prefer to go to parishes that have pews and kneelers, and do the kneeling from the end of the Sanctus to the Great Amen, then after the finish of the Agnus Dei until you go up for Communion, then kneel until Communion is done & the priest places the Blessed Sacrament in the tabernacle. The parish I go to projects the responses on a big screen behind the altar along with reminding people to please kneel or stand.


#16

[quote="CB_Catholic, post:14, topic:286984"]
You are probably worrying too much. Not kneeling will not invalidate your Confirmation or cause the Eucharist to be invalid. It takes a lot more than a few quirks of a parish to do that. The Bishop or priest delegated by the Bishop to Confirm you has a ritual to follow when he confirms. As for the Eucharist, it would have to be invalid matter, a person who is not an ordained priest trying to consecrate, the priest not saying "This is my Body" and "This is my Blood", or the priest not intending to do as the Church does.

I think sometimes that on these forums we get so caught up in discussing the details of things that we give the impression that one must always be on one's toes when attending Mass and guard against any liturgical abuse, real or perceived. Some people always seem to be on the lookout for it. This is very unhealthy spiritually. It takes the focus off of Mass, it fosters an attitude of distrust of the hierarchy, it also has led to false accusations and contributes to the distress of scrupulous people. Most of all it takes the focus off of Christ. Please do not fall into that trap--that is not of God. Do not go looking for things to go wrong or be wrong, and remember that minor abuses do not invalidate anything.

Try not to start out as a Catholic with that attitude, it will not enhance your spiritual growth at all. If abuses happen, they happen, and should not occur, but try to remember that we are dealing with human beings here who do love the Lord and sometimes make mistakes and exhibit poor judgment, not malice. Try to look at things through Christ's eyes--He is forgiving of more than we can imagine, and does not abandon us when we sin.

If there is a serious abuse, such as a priest preaching heresy, or invalid Consecrations, of course it needs to be reported through the proper channels, I am not saying liturgical abuses are ok. I'm just saying don't put your focus on looking for things you are not aware of.

[/quote]

Thanks, that really helpped. When it comes to liturgical abuses I'm very uneducated, so I get nervous easily; but I do think I can stop worrying about them.


#17

[quote="C794, post:12, topic:286984"]
I know it's been a while since this thread has been active, but I've just finally asked about the absence of kneeling. I was told that not kneeling is a parish costum. I don't really want to push the issue further because I'm going through RCIA and don't want to create any tension. This is especially due to me being in RCIA and having no possible way for me to switch Parishes for a long time I really don't want it to feel awkward there and I don't want to hurt any feelings. Is it okay if while I attend this Parish I continue not to kneel?

Right now my biggest concern is that there is something else that I'm unaware of that could invalidate my confimation or is causing the Eucharist to be invalid; in regards to these what do I need to look for?

Thanks

Oh and also I'm wondering; am I worrying to much?

[/quote]

Hogwash. They need to make it a parish custom.

Don't worry, your confirmation and Eucharist will be fine.


#18

[quote="Oneofthewomen, post:5, topic:286984"]
From the GIRM

Regarding what I highlighted, the best way to answer your question is go to the pastor and ask. There may be a very good reason why the parish doesn't kneel, and until you ask the people who know the answer, all you can get here is speculation and a lot of *"your priest is wrong, call the Bishop". *:rolleyes:

[/quote]

Does your priest have problems kneeling? We have kneeling from after the Sanctus until the amen but then we stand for the rest...I have very bad knees and I usually sit forward in my seat and appreciate that we stand for the rest.


#19

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