Responding to an uncles newsletter


#1

My uncle a non-denom minister (former pentelcostal) recently wrote in is newsletter:

Roman Catholics: — you are not the first church. Every true Christian is from the first Church . The governmental church of Catholicism started in 312 A.D. God’s precious title is the Holy Father The ABBA. The word pope means papa or abba. He is not the HOLY FATHER The ABBA. Blasphemy! The latest heresy of the “baptism of desire” introduced in the 1960’s is just that — heresy. You are saved through CHRIST only, and not from your sincerity and what opportunity you had to know CHRIST.

My father (a convert) and I would like to have some imput in how to respond.

Reidtgang


#2

[quote=reidtgang]My uncle a non-denom minister (former pentelcostal) recently wrote in is newsletter:

Roman Catholics: — you are not the first church. Every true Christian is from the first Church . The governmental church of Catholicism started in 312 A.D. God’s precious title is the Holy Father The ABBA. The word pope means papa or abba. He is not the HOLY FATHER The ABBA. Blasphemy! The latest heresy of the “baptism of desire” introduced in the 1960’s is just that — heresy. You are saved through CHRIST only, and not from your sincerity and what opportunity you had to know CHRIST.

My father (a convert) and I would like to have some imput in how to respond.

Reidtgang
[/quote]

Well, tell him that Protestantism didn’t exisit 2,000 years ago.
:stuck_out_tongue:


#3

312 AD huh? He’s going to allege that Constantine started the church which is historically inaccurate bunk. Constantine was just another believer…

Have a look at the 8th chapter of this Letter of Ignatius of Antioch to the Smyrneans which was written in about 107 AD and read up on just who Ignatius was. Note that he calls the church Catholic even then.

The primacy of Rome is something that developed very early in the church. These articles should help.

He doesn’t know what he’s talking about with reference to “baptism of desire”. Here’s an article on it from Jimmy Akin.

And of course Karl Keating offers a short article on why Symbolic Baptism Just Won’t Wash.

I strongly URGE you guys to invest in the The San Juan Catholic Seminars Apologetics Series , especially since I see that it is on sale right now and will be the best $35.00 you spend in a long, long time. The series has some of the best info on how to answer all this sort of stuff and you will NOT regret getting it and studying it.
Pax tecum,


#4

[quote=reidtgang]My uncle a non-denom minister (former pentelcostal) recently wrote in is newsletter:

Roman Catholics: — you are not the first church. Every true Christian is from the first Church . The governmental church of Catholicism started in 312 A.D. God’s precious title is the Holy Father The ABBA. The word pope means papa or abba. He is not the HOLY FATHER The ABBA. Blasphemy! The latest heresy of the “baptism of desire” introduced in the 1960’s is just that — heresy. You are saved through CHRIST only, and not from your sincerity and what opportunity you had to know CHRIST.

My father (a convert) and I would like to have some imput in how to respond.

Reidtgang
[/quote]

his 312 AD comment is concerning Constantine’s acceptance
of christianity… but, the church he accepted WAS the christian
church at the time… not one he created…

so, if this church, is, as your uncle says, the Catholic
church … that means it was the Catholic church before
it’s acceptance in 312 AD…

and titles, like pope or father, have nothing to do with
belittleing God… anymore than saying “the allies were europe’s saviors in world war 2” demeans or lessens Jesus’
power or station…saying something like “cheap energy will
be our salvation” has nothing to do with our divine salvation…

if people want use semantics and generalizations to attack
someone else’s beliefs, it’s very easy to do…

my advise would be, don’t respond in any way… he has the
right to state his beliefs in his bulletin… if he asks you, then
respond with charity and love… as befits a true christian…

:slight_smile:


#5

Roman Catholics: — you are not the first church.Every true Christian is from the first Church .

Isn’t this a contradiction? Or perhaps he means Catholics are not Christians at all?

The governmental church of Catholicism started in 312 A.D.

Well, if that’s so, then (according to him) didn’t Catholicism begin in 312? Wouldn’t that make it, even by his standards, the first church?


#6

Constantine was baptized by an Arian bishop (heretical sect that denied the divinity of Christ). How, then, if Constantine established Catholicism when he legalized Christianity did we (Catholics) keep the teaching of the Trinity throughout the “donation of Constantine”? Also, Saint Ignatius of Antioch (martyred in Rome, thrown to the lions in the arena), in 107 AD wrote: “the bishop appears, there let the people be, even as wheresoever Christ is, there is the Catholic Church”. How, then, in 107AD did a person who knew the apostles know the name of Christ’s Church?


#7

One more thing I would like to add. There was no formal Canon of scripture until a few hundred years after Christ died, how was the Catholic faith handed on? Word of mouth. The biblical canon was formalized at a Council called by Catholic bishops to refute heretical gnostic texts which were showing up, and the council, guided by the Holy Spirit preserved His Church from falling into gnostic heresy. It was Catholic bishops who preserved Christianity to this day.


#8

[quote=reidtgang]My uncle a non-denom minister (former pentelcostal) recently wrote in is newsletter:

Roman Catholics: — you are not the first church. Every true Christian is from the first Church . The governmental church of Catholicism started in 312 A.D. God’s precious title is the Holy Father The ABBA. The word pope means papa or abba. He is not the HOLY FATHER The ABBA. Blasphemy! The latest heresy of the “baptism of desire” introduced in the 1960’s is just that — heresy. You are saved through CHRIST only, and not from your sincerity and what opportunity you had to know CHRIST.

My father (a convert) and I would like to have some imput in how to respond.

Reidtgang
[/quote]

My question, He sent this out in a newletter? For his church? How did you get this? Did he send it to you? Or you just found a copy?

If I had just found a copy, while I would prepare a response, I would not necessarily send it to him, but be prepared when you next see him. If however, he sent this to you knowing you are converts and is trying to save you, I would ask why he is putting it in a newsletter instead of just talking to you about it.

As for the title of the Pope, in the Bible, Paul calls himself “like a father” to Timothy. The tract from CA answers this all much better. catholic.com/library/Call_No_Man_Father.asp


#9

[quote=MariaG]My question, He sent this out in a newletter? For his church? How did you get this? Did he send it to you? Or you just found a copy?

I used to donate to His Missions work before I returned to the Church. He still sends me the newsletter every month.

Reidtgang
[/quote]


#10

If he sends it to you then you have the right to respond to what he writes in it. I think if you cite the things others have contributed here for him it may get him thinking. Or, he may stop sending you his newsletter. In any case, he will know that his misconceptions and distortions will not budge any Catholic who knows his faith within the context of real history. :wink:
[/quote]


#11

#12

[quote=reidtgang]My uncle a non-denom minister (former pentelcostal) recently wrote in is newsletter:

Roman Catholics: — you are not the first church. Every true Christian is from the first Church . The governmental church of Catholicism started in 312 A.D. God’s precious title is the Holy Father The ABBA. The word pope means papa or abba. He is not the HOLY FATHER The ABBA. Blasphemy! The latest heresy of the “baptism of desire” introduced in the 1960’s is just that — heresy. You are saved through CHRIST only, and not from your sincerity and what opportunity you had to know CHRIST.

My father (a convert) and I would like to have some imput in how to respond.

Reidtgang
[/quote]

Tell you’re uncle to get with the times. According to the bloggers, there have been many other heresies introduced in the RCC since the 1960’s. Baptism of desire is not the “latest heresy.”


#13

The full newsletter can be found @ remnantandrlf.com/ .

Please do not respond to it! I will!

Reidtgang


#14

I just posted the same article. Sorry about that. I still say if you love apologetics, lets answer Dear Uncle.


#15

Reidtgang,

I think the BEST way to prove the existence of Catholicism piror to 313 is to prove that existence of those “distinctively Catholic” doctrines (e.g. papacy, real presence etc) piror to that magical year.

To prove that, you need to present the writings of Christians living prior to 313:

I think the following can be of assistance:

cin.org/users/jgallegos/contents.htm

Once you have shown him that earliest Christians actually believed in “distinctly Catholic” doctrine, then ask your uncle to prove his assertion with historical evidence (i.e. not just mere asssertion)

Cheers.

Francis


#16

[quote=Church Militant]312 AD huh? He’s going to allege that Constantine started the church which is historically inaccurate bunk. Constantine was just another believer…

[/quote]

:amen:

  • Kathie :bowdown: :clapping:

#17

[quote=Semper Fi]Constantine was baptized by an Arian bishop (heretical sect that denied the divinity of Christ). How, then, if Constantine established Catholicism when he legalized Christianity did we (Catholics) keep the teaching of the Trinity throughout the “donation of Constantine”?
[/quote]

The “Donation of Constantine” was a complete forgery and exposed to be so by the church so the whole case using it falls through anyway… New Advent: Doantion of Constantine
Pax vobiscum,


#18

[quote=reidtgang][font=Arial]The full newsletter can be found @ remnantandrlf.com/
[/quote]

.

Please do not respond to it! I will!

ReidtgangHey, I like this guy! Look at the rest of his “hit list”!

Baptist (fundamentalists)—you are the most arrogant group I have ever encountered. In the flesh you harshly judge those who aren’t Baptist. You resist and mock the HOLY SPIRIT, His gifts and Anointings. “He who corrects a scoffer gets dishonor for himself, And he who reproves a wicked man gets insults for himself. Do not reprove a scoffer, or he will hate you, Reprove a wise man and he will love you.” Proverbs 9:7,8.

Pentecostals—you are blinded by the prosperity gospel which is of a spirit of antichrist. Remember antichrist can mean a substitutionay CHRIST. This blindness has led you often into improper worship and false movements led by false prophets. A prophecy from the Azusa Street revival stated, “There will come a time when my people will praise Me openly but not pray to Me privately. They will want the power without purity. And they will emphasize the HOLY GHOST more than JESUS CHRIST!”

Those out of church humble yourself, repent and seek fellowship with godly, committed Christians who have a concern for souls.

If we don’t repent in America, things will be getting worse soon in the years to come.

Maranatha!

Now ya know why he calls his ministry “Remnant International”…nobody’s right but him. :o I do think that we can agree with him on his last three paragraphs.

Honestly… he hasn’t really looked into Catholic teaching or the ECF (Early Church Fathers) so he doesn’t really know what he’s talking about. He’s been reading some biased source I guess.

Anyway, the answers are out there and if he’s honest he’ll have a long, prayerful look at them. Ya never know what the Holy Spirit can do. :slight_smile: [/FONT]


#19

[quote=Church Militant]The “Donation of Constantine” was a complete forgery and exposed to be so by the church so the whole case using it falls through anyway… New Advent: Doantion of Constantine
Pax vobiscum,
[/quote]

Of course it was a forgery. It was probably written by the Frankish Kings who wanted to give their land to the Church so that they could legitmize their claim easier, and it probably originated after the church had taken control of the land.


#20

[quote=reidtgang]My father (a convert) and I would like to have some imput in how to respond.
[/quote]

Crumple the newsletter up into a ball and toss it in the trash. Then go to the park and feed the squirrels.

– Mark L. Chance.


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