Restoration


#1

Hi everybody. I don’t want a bunch of attention; only real answers from knowledgable individuals.

I always want to fast, but God showed me one time while I was praying (or sleeping I don’t remember it was like 6 years ago?) what I understood to be the judges Israel shaking their heads in disapproval at what seemed to be a young girl thin as a rail, walking on what seemed to be a tightrope.
After seeing this, I told myself to feel sorry for the girl and started praying against anorexia, but the thought barely slipped into my head that perhaps it was talking about me (in spirit, all humanity is feminine; also, Scripture speaks of ‘the virgin daughters of Israel…’ and not all Israelites were women, but I continue). Now, could this sight have been the impression of another believer on my life, or was it truly from God, or…?
I would fast daily, and make sure that when I sat down to eat, that if my body wanted to eat, I wouldn’t eat, until there was peace, even every bite, to make sure not to walk after the desires of my flesh, but with a clear and peaceful mind, doing nothing in excess.
I walk the tightrope, too, wanting only to do EXACTLY God’s will (thus all the fasting, so I can hear His voice more clearly) but somehow that doesn’t work.
I thought I heard God tell me to fast for 30 days once, so I set out to do it, and on day 27, the minister where I was going told me that it wasn’t God but the devil, and that I had lost alot of weight, etc., so I should break my fast. I have since learned not to listen to so-called minister, as I went against my own faith to listen to this individual.
I didn’t care about the weight I had lost, only doing what I thought was God’s will for me, but I fell because of what he said, breaking my word to God… we were at church, and it was after a small meeting, and there was a prophetess there, and the word she spoke was about, “Is this the fast I choose?” from Is 58. LOL I didn’t catch on at the time (if it was God at all). But both the minister and his wife were telling me that I should break my fast… meanwhile, God was threatening me not to do so… but I wasn’t close enough with God - because, for all my fasting, I couldn’t go close with God for shame over past sins - gluttony and disobedience to His voice - and I broke my fast. Afterwards, I continued to disobey God’s voice and He punished me terribly for it. I lost my mind completely (5 years ago) after listening to this minister, and I can’t seem to regain that level of fervency. After this incident, I had been directed by the same minister to go to cooking school - it must’ve been a message from the devil himself, because this was my greatest weakness!
What ever is done without faith (whether right or wrong) is sin.
Thus, having set out to fast, and many times broken my words, for confusion coming issuing forth from this event, I have lost much faith in my own resolve, and have fallen in a pit of sorts. What is worst is that I am not near God and unable to transmit His power and glory in all I do. I feel completely untrustworthy now, and in my own life, many times it is difficult to discern what is truly from God, and what is from myself.
However, I was fortunate enough to happen upon the Book “Dark Night of the Soul” online, and, in it, they say that newborn souls, new to Christ, want to do many penances (could this also be fasting?) - even against the will of those who are put above them to teach them the road wherein to walk.
I have been sexually molested in the past, and for this reason, trust no one - and much less with the future of my eternal soul. However, there must come a time where I listen to someone who knows more than I do about God… despite not wanting anyone to touch me within.
I find that it is difficult for me to discern whether I was in the wrong or whether he was in the wrong. Either way, the Bible says that whatever does not issue from faith is sin; however, there has to come a time when I am corrected in my faith. God is a very serious matter, and I feel like this whole thing has kind of been irreverent… and not becoming of a follower of God, and I want all of this to END.

I think that I have come to see that in all of these works, I had forgotten the Person for whom I was supposedly supposed to be doing them FOR, and for this reason, lost the reward which ought to have come from doing them - they became dead works; not worship to God with thanksgiving.
Thank you


#2

Fasting, both the ascetical practice and the rules, are for normal healthy people doing normal healthy things.

The purpose of fasting is to humble the flesh. To the extent that the flesh is humbled (by disease or certain physical conditions), then the fasting is relaxed.

Obviously, someone suffering from anorexia nervosa should NOT fast.


#3

I am not so knowledgable, but here is my input. Yes, fasting is included in ‘many penances’. Your zeal for Christ is good, but the Devil can use it to deceive you. He often tempts zealous Christians to be imprudent in their zeal, which usually results in a lack of peace, scruples and, if not checked, eventual despair.

I suggest you find a respectable spiritual director and take his advice. Don’t try and read God’s will directly because it is near-impossible for beginners (me included :thumbsup: ). Furthermore, I suggest you join the Catholic Church and get some proper guidance.

God bless you :slight_smile:


#4

I read about that… I would join the Catholic Church, and I would love to, but I cannot agree with what I KNOW is wrong : Marian theology. Also, if the Catholic Church truly knew the truth, they wouldn’t be so devoid of spiritual power, as they are today. “The Kingdom is not in words, but in power.” To join the Catholic Church, I have to agree with everything they say, right? I cannot, because Scripture teaches otherwise. About Marian theology, I posted on another board:
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=265288&page=23&highlight=mountain
Post #342


#5

In all of it, I feel so foolish…


#6

not all we believe as Christians is in the Bible, but also in the unwritten tradition, but that is another story.

Also, if the Catholic Church truly knew the truth, they wouldn’t be so devoid of spiritual power, as they are today. “The Kingdom is not in words, but in power.” To join the Catholic Church, I have to agree with everything they say, right? I cannot, because Scripture teaches otherwise.

devoid of spiritual power? What about changing bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ? And that is in the Bible.

If you have serious reservations, then ok, but I would advise that you thoroughly investigate the matter before finally rejecting the Catholic Church. You have come to the right place for that, here :thumbsup:


#7

:smiley:
I do not reject the Catholic Church, my precious blood brothers and sisters; I do, however, reject the words of men taught as truth of God, since they cannot convey power - and God is a Spirit of Power (2 Tim 1:7).

If you literally believe that it is the body and blood of Jesus Christ, you have understood incorrectly, as also the Jews did:

"The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?"
John 6:52

“Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?” John 6:60

But I garauntee you that He wasn’t speaking of cannibalism, but that we should DO as He has set example - and in the Spirit in which He did it.

“Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.” John 4:34

The wine is a symbol of the Spirit:

“No one puts new wine into old wineskins; otherwise the wine will burst the skins, and the wine is lost and the skins as well; but one puts new wine into fresh wineskins.” Mark 2:22

What is the wineskin? The human vessel.
And the wine? The spirit and the correlative measures/acts. Another Scriptural understanding as the wine as being the blood and the spirit is in the old testament:
“But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.” Gen 9:4 - and this is how Jesus shares His Eternal Spirit (life) with us - through His shed blood.

“…'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.” John 6:53

But about truth: only God’s Truth can sanctify; and only God’s written word is God’s Truth. John 17:17

Jesus could not defeat the darkness (with light) except by Scripture alone Matt 4:6,7,10..

Any words which are edifying must never go against Scripture, God’s Word, which alone sanctifies:

“And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified (by the Word of Truth John 17:17).” Acts 20:32

“That he might sanctify and cleanse it (His Bride, the Church) with the washing of water by the word,” Ephesians 5:26

How can you have faith towards God if you do not have conversation from God?

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” Romans 10:17

“Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD…” Is 1:8

What exactly do you believe if not God’s Word only - plus whatever does not go against it? For that, you could believe any number of things and still be called a Catholic - even thing Jesus Himself spoke against.

However, our Lord Jesus said:
“Everyone who comes to Me and hears My words and acts on them, I will show you whom he is like:
he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid a foundation on the rock; and when a flood occurred, the torrent burst against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built.
But the one who has heard and has not acted accordingly, is like a man who built a house on the ground without any foundation; and the torrent burst against it and immediately it collapsed, and the ruin of that house was great.” Luke 6:47-49

And about Jesus’ words, Peter said,
"…Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life." John 6:68

" …'If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free." John 8:31,33

How many more Scriptures you want about the Word’s necessity, and bringing every thought captive unto the obedience of THIS true knowledge? 2 Cor 10:5

Hah, I need to read more - in a roundabout way, maybe I have my answer!


#8

Quote “I do not reject the Catholic Church, my precious blood brothers and sisters; I do, however, reject the words of men taught as truth of God, since they cannot convey power - and God is a Spirit of Power”

That was a lot of Bible verses you quoted there.

I look at it this way, first, what is “Power”. Is it landing on the Moon? Is it waging a war on terrorism? (or flying a few planes into towers, note todays date). Is it the ability to earn wages enough to be independent of assistance? And actually contribute to society? Is it the ability to raise ‘good’ kids? Is it the ability to drive a car? Is it being a ‘boss’ and telling others what to do? etc, etc.

Not quoting any verse in the Bible, merely looking at the stories, I see Christ healing the sick (lepers), the blind, and many more. (Is this power?) He also ‘forgave sins’. (is this power?). Remember, HIS Kingdom is not of this World (as Caesar found out)… so, where is HIS Power? Where is the Power of the Word? Where is the Power of the Church? What Power is it that helps get a Soul into Heaven? So if your looking for a ‘Lightning Bolt’ when the Priest raises the Chalice during the Canon… keep looking… He also said, no sign will be given.


#9

I thought you were interested in learning about fasting?

Now it seems your turning this into a debate over Catholic doctrines.

I smell a bait and switch scheme. :rolleyes:

Jim


#10

Part - and a very important part - of it. Who will believe you if there is no power? “And God, on His part, stretched forth His hand to work miracles, to prove the preaching of the Word…”

Of course.

And I agree His Kingdom if not of this world.
The only power that helps a soul get into heaven is
The only reason I put the quotes there (which is extremely painstaking) is so you don’t think I’m feeding you my own opinions, but rather the Spirit and Thought of God. I know the ideas, but I don’t know the exact Scriptures.

Exactly, no one would’ve walked away from a powerful, glorious church, but many of the sheep under the care of powerless Catholic faith have been allowed to become atheists, humanists, etc., because there is no convincing power.

Even the WORDS of Stephen (aside from the works of power which were done among the people Acts 6:8) were so full of power that “they could not resist the Spirit and wisdom by which he spake.” and it forced people to gnash their teeth at him, speak evil of him, and eventually kill him, revealing the truth that his treasure was great in the Kingdom of Heaven, according to Jesus Matt 5:11,12.

That’s the kind of power I’m talking about - and that is the kind of power God gives His true witnesses in these last days - Rev 11 - which two witnesses are symbolic of Moses and Elijah, symbolizing the law and the prophets, which all the saints who love the Lord their God and their neighbor as themselves fulfill. Matt 22:40+Zech 4+Rev 11+Mark 9:4
Pure power - and of this I have no doubt.

Where is the power TODAY? Why do people even doubt that God is miraculous? You put your faith in men’s words; not God, and it is done to you according to your faith, which is not in God, thus shortcircuiting God’s power, and because of this, God cannot be believed on:
"…and my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
that your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
" 1 Cor 2:4,5

Without the power of God, there would BE no faith:

“…who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord.” Romans 1:4

So, your faith better rest on the power of God (according to Paul), which comes through the truth of God:

“And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.” John 1:14

Grace is God’s own life/power/enacting.

Through this power, I no longer suffer anxiety attacks, through this power, I am not addicted to drugs anymore, through it I have been healed not only of diseases but of burns and been saved in motorcycle crashes, through this power, God has healed others through myself (and it ought to be EVERY PERSON in the church as well through whom God works such things) and spoken words of wisdom and knowledge which I would’ve never known if the Spirit hadn’t told me those things, unto the salvation of the hearers. Through this power, I’ve had visions, through this power, I’ve seen Jesus, through this power, millions of Muslims are being saved every year praise God, but without the word of truth, there is no grace : truth is the container of grace. through understanding the truth - and when I accept that truth, I am set free.

However, I’ve known Christians who do not understand heavenly/spiritual truth Jesus spoke of, who still are under all of these things, and without holiness, they are blind and cannot see the Lord.

What purpose is religion if there is no reward? I need the love of God, I need to feel the love of God, I need to experience His awesome power, my soul was created to experience something more than this world can ever think to offer - and that alone is God Himself in the power and Person of the Spirit, revealing Jesus, revealing God. Praise God!
I love Him! He is precious! You ought to know this love, too. I hope you do or will, my precious brother.


#11

If I want to talk about Catholic dogma, I will talk about it directly; I am reaching out for grace from my brothers, if you have edifying words.

I deal with things directly


#12

Quote " Through this power, I no longer suffer anxiety attacks, through this power, I am not addicted to drugs anymore, through it I have been healed not only of diseases but of burns and been saved in motorcycle crashes, through this power, God has healed others through myself (and it ought to be EVERY PERSON in the church as well through whom God works such things) "

A few things on ‘Living’ Catholic. Witnessing. We all are, in the lives we live everyday. Most of us “no longer suffer…???” “have been healed of…???” “has healed others”… as HIS Instruments (St. Francis of Assisi)… This is the knowing who is who in the healing process. I am a mere servant. This is known as Humility.

If you got to know some of us more, you may find we are witnesses of what you are talking about. But without walking in our shoes for a day, it is hard to judge. Besides, we (I) like to give the Glory to God (as even Christ did), rather then myself. As we say the Our Father (Christ told us that one), at the end it says " For the Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory…" (are Who’s?)

All of us live in our own little world, ie, city, work, family, Church, social activities, etc. it is in these ‘little worlds’ that we witness, and are witnessed to. Even Christ went only to Israel, it was St. Paul that brought the Gospel to the Gentiles. Even a Priest tends the flock in his own ‘little parish’… as we do within our families. For the most part we go about it ‘without’ fan-fare, and without material reward… “and your reward will be great in Heaven”.

Again I ask, Where is the Power?
In all of it!
To know is one thing… to do is the greater thing.


#13

I am glad you experience the power of God, however, you are not sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, as the end of the world cannot come until the entire earth has been preached to, as Paul the Apostle had said,

"And thus I aspired to (A)preach the gospel, not where Christ was already named, (B)so that I would not build on another man’s foundation;

but as it is written,
"THEY WHO HAD NO NEWS OF HIM SHALL SEE,
AND THEY WHO HAVE NOT HEARD SHALL UNDERSTAND."
Romans 15:20,21

Maybe you’re right, but my grandfather was catholic and suffered with diseases and wasn’t healed, my dad had fistfights with his own dad (my grandfather), and neither seemed all that affected by the power of God.
I just talked with a “Father” at a Catholic Church nearby affected with Parkinson’s disease, and met some lustful and violent members of the local Catholic Church when I went there, some of whom were leaders.
Maybe you should go and teach them the right way? You mention healings, ect., my grandmother suffered with knee injuries most of her life from hard working as a seamstress - the churches she went to never helped her with that, never gave her hope of healing, and she’s been to churches in at least two different countries : Ecuador and U.S.A., so…


#14

Yes, not everything is healed or cured. How many in Israel who were blind were not restored to sight by Christ? How many other lepers were in colonies that were not healed by Christ? I’d say more were not then that were. Why? My answer, God knows! Even St. Paul asked God to ‘remove the thorn in his side’, and God’s answer was, ‘My Grace is sufficient for you’. He did not remove it!
The question here is, will you still believe when He says no? Ahh… this is where REAL Faith comes in. Trust in God’s Wisdom… (even with one He loves {you, or another that you love})… instead of His Action.
Didn’t Christ Suffer (the Passion)? And aren’t we to be Christ-Like? This would then include Suffering. (In our own ‘little way’).

When I go into God’s House (Church), I remember that the reason I am there is because I’m a Sinner… and God welcomes Sinners. He can Forgive and Heal them of their Sins. (The Power). And as such, OTHERS are there just like me (sinners). Church is where I go to cleans and maintain my Spiritual health (Soul).
If Church was only for the godly,(these should be full of Gratitude) what would God have to do??? Why does He ‘remind’ us of Christ’s Body and Blood in Church… the healing power for the Sinner.

I try not to judge other’s or their motives… it is tough enough to figure out my own. And I do walk in my shoes all day. And if someone is put next to me, I try to follow up on whatever God’s reason is for it… to help; to be helped; to tolerate; to see God in them (as God’s Child… at whatever stage of development); to be Grateful; to be touch by His Angel; the list goes on and on…


#15

Alright, please let’s only talk about the topic, because it is of great importance to me.


#16

Jim your sense of smell is correct young padawan - look up the posts by the OP which he used upon arriving in the forum…


#17

From Wikipedia:

" * Restorationism is a religious motif, typified by various movements of the 19th century which sought return to the original pattern of Christianity.
* Restoration Branches, independent organizations that have left the Community of Christ
* Restorationism is a doctrine of universal reconciliation associated with Origen or some of his interpreters, especially in the theological school of Alexandria, revived among some nineteenth century Universalists under the name of “restorationism”. Restorationists taught that every soul will ultimately be restored to fellowship with God, although some must suffer punishments due to their sins before they are reconciled. "

What part of this are you interested in?


#18

haha, thanks, but please read original post, if I could get some specific help with that, I’d be greatly obliged.
Thanks.


#19

I think you are a troubled individual who needs some serious psychiatric help!!


#20

Dan1el, I don’t know myself what God is calling you to, regarding fasting. I don’t know if He wants you to fast more or not. But if you’re worried about your health, there are other ways of “fasting.”

My current practices of mortification of my flesh or spirit involve doing things I normally wouldn’t want to do for my family, or for God. Volunteering to achieve major household jobs, for instance, become my devotion to Mary. Also, normal responsibilities I have where I’ve been accustomed to schiving off or procrastinating, I’m instead practicing diligently, putting my own desires second and doing these tasks for Christ, as a devotion to Him and His will.

There are lots of ways of putting oneself second and mortifying the flesh or the spirit without fasting from food.

Those kinds of devotions, devotions around the house or in charity to people outside the family, in being generous of your time or whatever else you have to offer, and looking to other people’s needs ahead of your own- these are perfectly beautiful ways of mortifying your flesh or spirit without fasting from food.

Fasting from food is one more form of the same. It is one more thing in this “genre” of spiritual giving. It is great, if you feel it won’t damage your health. If you do have health concerns, though, you might consider devoting yourself to the Lord in some of these other ways instead. They are other methods of putting the self second and God and your neighbors first.

When I have practiced these, my spiritual intimacy with God and the Blessed Virgin have taken off gloriously. I’ve also practiced fasting from food, though for much smaller periods of time than you have, and I consider these acts, all of which put the self second and God (and/or one’s neighbor) first, to produce similar spiritual results.

As regards your comments about Mary, would you care to respond to my last few posts in this thread about Marian theology? They’re at the end of what’s been written in the thread, so far.

I don’t know if you’ve already heard those things. If you have, oh well.


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