Rev 12


#1

I have heard that the Church says (& I think that my NAB Bible supports this) that this ISN’T about Mary because the woman cries out in pain during child birth & that is a direct result of sin. Since Mary was sinless, it couldn’t be her. It’s more probably Israel. Have you all heard this? Do you know the Church’s official stance on this?

(Sorry for posting a lot here lately, BUT, I have all these conflicting ideas & I want them purged so I can get back to worshiping God freely.)


#2

The Church has no official interpretation of this passage because it doesn’t have to have a primary interpretation that all Catholics must believe. Having said that, though, it is commonly understood to refer to both Mary and the Church. Mary probably didn’t have birth pains giving birth to Jesus, but she certainly suffered birth pains of another sort helping to bring the Church into existence. She suffered what is called a white martyrdom as she stood and watched her Son give his life for sinful humanity. And she was in the Upper Room on the day of Pentecost praying with the newly formed Church. Oh yes, she suffered in her own way to bring Christ to the world, no doubt about it.


#3

[quote=Della]The Church has no official interpretation of this passage because it doesn’t have to have a primary interpretation that all Catholics must believe. Having said that, though, it is commonly understood to refer to both Mary and the Church. Mary probably didn’t have birth pains giving birth to Jesus, but she certainly suffered birth pains of another sort helping to bring the Church into existence. She suffered what is called a white martyrdom as she stood and watched her Son give his life for sinful humanity. And she was in the Upper Room on the day of Pentecost praying with the newly formed Church. Oh yes, she suffered in her own way to bring Christ to the world, no doubt about it.
[/quote]

lightbulb I will have to meditate on all this and I thank you much.


#4

[quote=adstrinity]…because the woman cries out in pain during child birth & that is a direct result of sin.
[/quote]

The Bible does not say that pain in childbirth is the result of sin. God tells Eve her pain in childbirth will be increased. It is certainly reasonable to note that for something to be increased, it probably was already there, but just in as great a quantity.

– Mark L. Chance.


#5

I have studied this before, once a long time ago:

Child Birth Study

Hopefully the explanation is not too long. It takes a bit of time to work your way through it.

Any Q’S, I’ll try to give a quick A. :slight_smile:


#6

The woman of Revelation 12 is symbolic of many things: the Nation of Israel; the sun stands for Abraham, the moon for Sarah, and the twelve stars for the sons of Jacob. She is also symbolic of the church, because the church is the new Israel and the woman is persecuted, just like the church. With that said, the birth that is being described is the resurrection of Christ. The pain, is the pain the blessed mother felt at the crucifixion. A nation and a church cannot physically give birth to someone though, only a woman can, so Mary is also to be included in the interpretation of Revelation 12.


#7

[quote=Psalm45:9]The woman of Revelation 12 is symbolic of many things: the Nation of Israel; the sun stands for Abraham, the moon for Sarah, and the twelve stars for the sons of Jacob. She is also symbolic of the church, because the church is the new Israel and the woman is persecuted, just like the church. With that said, the birth that is being described is the resurrection of Christ. The pain, is the pain the blessed mother felt at the crucifixion. A nation and a church cannot physically give birth to someone though, only a woman can, so Mary is also to be included in the interpretation of Revelation 12.
[/quote]

Look at the wonderful mathematical symbolism woven into the text of chapter 12 .

The 1260 translate into 42 months and my old St Joseph’s edition of Rev used to render verse 14 as " one year,2 years and a half year".For those paying attension 1 year,2 years and 6 months mirrors 1260 days numerically just as 144,000 mirrors the 144 cubits of Rev 21 v17.

I dare not corrupt the text for my own personal ends but my goodness,the depth and richness of Revelation for those who can get below the symbolism is breathtaking,truly !.

One word,should I write on the mathematical symbolism in Revelation it has nothing to do with gematria or numerology,if a participant here cannot see the emerging mathematical facet of Revelation it will not make them any better or worse for it as a Christian.Revelation is too sprawling of a work to allow any one person to speak for it as representative of the Divine author but again, it has little to do with contemporary conceptions which try to make sense of the symbolism within the context of some corporeal historical activity be it Christian persecution or future events.


#8

Mary as Mother of Christ is clearly the primary meaning of the Woman of Revelation 12. Beware Liberal theologians. The Church, and Israel can be secondary levels of meaning. (Israel is a fairly recent protestant interpretation). All the symbolic figures in Rev 12 represent individuals. The 12 stars can refer to the 12 Tribes, or to the 12 Apostles. Both Associated with, but NOT the Woman.

This is the traditional image of the Woman crowned with stars:


#9

Jimmy Akin wrote a good article on this: “The Woman of Revelation 12”.


#10

[quote=Axion]Mary as Mother of Christ is clearly the primary meaning of the Woman of Revelation 12. Beware Liberal theologians. The Church, and Israel can be secondary levels of meaning. (Israel is a fairly recent protestant interpretation). All the symbolic figures in Rev 12 represent individuals. The 12 stars can refer to the 12 Tribes, or to the 12 Apostles. Both Associated with, but NOT the Woman.

This is the traditional image of the Woman crowned with stars:


[/quote]

I agree with you; but since Mary is the personification of the church, the New Israel, the other interpretations can be included, but she is not to be discluded in the interpretation.


#11

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.