Rev. 17 and the Papal States


#1

I have been trying to figure out how to rebuttle the accusation that The Pope and the Papal states are the Whore of Babylon spoken of in Rev. 17. I found one addressing it at the CatholicAnswers homepage but, that was addressing the Vatican City and not the Papal States. Could anyone help me? Thanks and God bless.


#2

How about that is just an absurd claim promulgated by anti-Catholics to try to bash and discredit us…it has no weight and should be simply ignored because it is fallacious and not even worthy of a rebuttal.

[quote=Montie Claunch]I have been trying to figure out how to rebuttle the accusation that The Pope and the Papal states are the Whore of Babylon spoken of in Rev. 17. I found one addressing it at the CatholicAnswers homepage but, that was addressing the Vatican City and not the Papal States. Could anyone help me? Thanks and God bless.
[/quote]


#3

[quote=Montie Claunch]I have been trying to figure out how to rebuttle the accusation that The Pope and the Papal states are the Whore of Babylon spoken of in Rev. 17. I found one addressing it at the CatholicAnswers homepage but, that was addressing the Vatican City and not the Papal States. Could anyone help me? Thanks and God bless.
[/quote]

Montie,
Here is a post I did on another thread… I am not sure what the specific question about the papal states? If it’s Adventist’s there are several responses, if not, then I would have to hear the arguement. Thanks

Let me begin by stating that I believe that 1) Revelation was written prior to 70AD, and that it was a book with a primary meaning to the first century Christians, secondary meaning to the rest of the world. 2) I think that the whore of Babylon was Apostate Jerusalem. Here is why:

Looking at the how the Bible characterizes the Whore:

  1. She is identified as a harlot, Rev. 17:1: Jerusalem is identified as a harlot many times in the Old Testament, this is not a new designation for the City of Jerusalem. Why was she a Harlot? Because she committed fornication (joined) with the pagan and non-Christian influences around her, most recently (at the time of St. John) she was “in bed”, so to speak, with Pagan Rome. (who is the beast she rides upon)

  2. She is said to be guilty of the blood of the saints: Rev, 17:6: This matches exactly what Christ said about the leaders in Jerusalem. Ie. (Mat 23:34NASB) "Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. One cannot deny that the Jewish leaders, with their center in Jerusalem, were the first and among the most fierce in their persecution of the Christians, thus, by doing so, they become the enemies of God and bring judgment upon themselves.

  3. Rev 17:16 states that the Harlot will be destroyed and burned with fire. In approx. 70AD Rome did just that, they besieged Jerusalem, and literally burnt it to the ground. Some estimate that as many as 1.2 million Jews died in the sack of the city. Blood literally ran from the streets and the Temple was destroyed. Notice that if the beast is Pagan Rome, vs. 16 is completely accurate in that while she at one time rode on top of the beast she was then destroyed by the same beast, or Pagan Rome.

  4. Rev 17:18 states that the whore is “the great city”, this excludes a religion or “states” from being considered because the Apostle John clearly identifies that he is speaking of a City. There are many cities called “the great city” in scripture, but John himself uses the term in Revelation to describe the city where Christ died. (Rev 11:8) So… from John’s own writing, same context, same time period, same revelation, we find him identifying the Great City as the city where Christ died, Jerusalem. It is also called Egypt, Babylon, and Sodom, representing how Jerusalem had fallen and joined her pagan contemporaries in their vices.

  5. The following verses and chapters go on to explain that there will now come to be a “New Jerusalem”, which only makes sense if the “Old”Jerusalem was being replaced.

There is a lot more we can go into, but hopefully this will give you some starting points. Take care.

brandon


#4

You should do three things to a Protestant who makes these claims:

  1. Point
  2. laugh
  3. repeat process

In all seriousness though I havent given this claim enough credence to have it even merit me looking it up, so I am sorry I can not help you.


#5

All about Revelation 17:

The Catholic Church or the Papacy is “The Whore of Babylon”.
How many times have you heard that from the Protestant Fundamentalist mouth?
Those who propagate that lie are also the same ones who claim to follow the Bible religiously.
Okay, let us see if they follow Scripture to the word, as they profess to do.

They base this lie from the Book of Revelation Chapter 17:

"1. Then one of the seven angels who were holding the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come here. I will show you the judgment on the great harlot who lives near the many waters. 2. The kings of the earth have had intercourse with her, and the inhabitants of the earth became drunk on the wine of her harlotry.” 3. Then he carried me away in spirit to a deserted place where I saw a woman seated on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names, with seven heads and ten horns. 4. The woman was wearing purple and scarlet and adorned with gold, precious stones, and pearls. She held in her hand a gold cup that was filled with the abominable and sordid deeds of her harlotry. 5. On her forehead was written a name, which is a mystery, “Babylon the great, the mother of harlots and of the abominations of the earth.” 6. I saw that the woman was drunk on the blood of the holy ones and on the blood of the witnesses to Jesus. When I saw her I was greatly amazed. 7. The angel said to me, “Why are you amazed? I will explain to you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, the beast with the seven heads and the ten horns. 8. The beast that you saw existed once but now exists no longer. It will come up from the abyss and is headed for destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world shall be amazed when they see the beast, because it existed once but exists no longer, and yet it will come again. 9. Here is a clue for one who has wisdom. The seven heads represent seven hills upon which the woman sits."
Revelation 17:1-9

Verse 9 is what Protestants, including the first one, use to try to “prove” what they had said.
We all should realize by now that truth can be proven, but the lie cannot.
Notice very closely in verse 9, the words “Here is a clue for one who has wisdom”, as it clearly shows that those who do not have wisdom will interpret this verse as saying the seven hills upon which the woman sits is Rome. Demonizing? I will prove what I said here:

"The woman whom you saw represents the great city that has sovereignty over the kings of the earth."
Revelation 17:18
So, the woman is a great city, and from what we have found so far is that she sits upon seven hills.
So now, how do we determine which city is the great city? Are there other cities in the world other than Rome which sit on seven hills? Well, for one, Jerusalem does. How then do we determine which city is the great city spoken of in Revelation 17:18?
Well, believe it or not, the Book of Revelation tells us in another verse which city is the great city:

"Their corpses will lie in the main street of the great city, which has the symbolic names “Sodom” and “Egypt”, where indeed their Lord was crucified."
Revelation 11:8

So, in which great city was the Lord Crucified? Was He crucified in Rome? No, it was Jerusalem, as “those who have wisdom” can readily see quite easily. With Scripture as clear as these verses, why then do non-Catholics continue to say the great city is Rome, other than to try to Demonize the Catholic Church? Answers anyone?

Revelation 11:8 is yet another verse which was ignored by Martin Luther and which is still being ignored by his Protestant Fundamentalist followers.
Once again, the lie of Protestantism is exposed, destroyed by the truth of Holy Scripture.

Another bit of information which fits quite nicely here, is the fact that the “seven hills of Rome”, as they are called in Biblical times, all lie east of the Tiber River, whereas the Vatican, the seat of Christianity, which came hundreds of years later, is located to the west of the Tiber. For those who wish to check this for themselves, the names of the seven hills of Rome in its origin are the Palatine, Capitoline, Quirinal, Viminal, Esquiline, Caelian, and Aventine.

The rest of the topic is here: home.inreach.com/bstanley/luther.htm


#6

What Papal States? The Papal States no longer exist. They haven’t for a bit more than a hundred years.

– Mark L. Chance.


#7

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