Revelation, woman clothed with the sun


#1

Hi,

I could use some clarification on this from Revelation.

Revelation
12:1 A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. 2 She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in the sky;

I feel the woman clothed with the sun is Our Lady, is this correct or are there other interpretations of this?

Thank you.


#2

It could be Mary, Mother of Jesus, or it could also represent the Church...or both. The more common understanding is that it is Mary.


#3

=endaman;10466472]Hi,

I could use some clarification on this from Revelation.

Revelation
12:1 A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. 2 She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in the sky;

I feel the woman clothed with the sun is Our Lady, is this correct or are there other interpretations of this?

Thank you.

The Ladt with the SUN is the Lady with THEE SON! Your correct:)


#4

You have probably seen the image of our Mother after she appeard to Juan Diego in the 1500s in Mexico. If you see the picture you will see that she has the moon underneath her, with an angel below her feet, she has the sun to her back. It clearly is Mary


#5

Bp. Challoner's note in the Douay Bible:

A woman: The church of God. It may also, by allusion, be applied to our blessed Lady. The church is clothed with the sun, that is, with Christ: she hath the moon, that is, the changeable things of the world, under her feet: and the twelve stars with which she is crowned, are the twelve apostles: she is in labour and pain, whilst she brings forth her children, and Christ in them, in the midst of afflictions and persecutions.


#6

See also Jimmy Akin’s The Woman of Revelation 12, which explains how the figure is Mary, the Church, Eve, and Israel - all of which are intertwined types in Catholic theology.

See also Jimmy Akin citing Pope Benedict’s (now Pope Emeritus :o) view:what Pope Benedict suggests. In his book Jesus of Nazareth, volume 2, he writes:
When the Book of Revelation speaks of the great sign of a Woman appearing in heaven, she is understood to represent all Israel, indeed, the whole Church. . . .
On the basis of the “corporate personality” model—in keeping with biblical thought—the early Church had no difficulty recognizing in the Woman, on the one hand, Mary herself and, on the other hand, transcending time, the Church, bride and mother, in which the mystery of Mary spreads out into history [Benedict XVI, Jesus of Nazareth 2:222].
On another occasion, Pope Benedict said:
This Woman represents Mary, the Mother of the Redeemer, but at the same time she also represents the whole Church, the People of God of all times, the Church which in all ages, with great suffering, brings forth Christ ever anew [General Audience, Aug. 23, 2006].
As Pope Benedict shows us, we don’t have to make a forced choice between the possible meanings of what the Woman represents.
In keeping with the richness of the way Revelation uses symbolism, to use Pope Benedict’s phrases, she can be Mary and “all Israel” and “the whole Church” in different ways.


#7

First and foremost the Woman represents faithful Israel in its sufferings through the ages and in its bringing forth the Messiah. Second she represents the Church, particularly after her Child is born. Thus she reflects an idea of continuity between Israel and the Church.

Still she definitely does connect to Mary, the actual human mother of Christ. Essentially you could say that John uses Mary as the symbol of both Israel and the Church.


#8

from the USCCB Bible web page

  • [12:1] The woman adorned with the sun, the moon, and the stars (images taken from Gn 37:9–10) symbolizes God’s people in the Old and the New Testament. The Israel of old gave birth to the Messiah (Rev 12:5) and then became the new Israel, the church, which suffers persecution by the dragon (Rev 12:6, 13–17); cf. Is 50:1; 66:7; Jer 50:12. This corresponds to a widespread myth throughout the ancient world that a goddess pregnant with a savior was pursued by a horrible monster; by miraculous intervention, she bore a son who then killed the monster.

usccb.org/bible/revelation/12

Peace


#9

The highlighted part of your quote from the usccb commentary is sure to invoke someone calling it a bad interpretation because he thinks pagan myths have no place in God’s revelation and so must mean it cannot be true. I expect this because modern people, for the most part, do not understand mythology–what it is, and what it isn’t.

Mythology is a way to tell a truth–usually based in an ancient understanding of God’s revelation that often became distorted. As C. S. Lewis describes it, it’s like seeing an image in shattered pieces of a mirror. The mirror that reflects the whole truth is Sacred Tradition that subsists within the Church.

That humankind had such myths tells us that every people knew through the revelation to Adam and Eve in Genesis that God would send his Son to redeem us–but the message got clouded and obscured as people moved out from one another and human concepts got mingled in with divine revelation. This is why God called Abraham from Ur and led him to Canaan, so he, Abraham, could receive God’s revelation anew apart from encrusted pagan practices and beliefs.


#10

[quote="Della, post:9, topic:317994"]
The highlighted part of your quote from the usccb commentary is sure to invoke someone calling it a bad interpretation because he thinks pagan myths have no place in God's revelation and so must mean it cannot be true. I expect this because modern people, for the most part, do not understand mythology--what it is, and what it isn't.

Mythology is a way to tell a truth--usually based in an ancient understanding of God's revelation that often became distorted. As C. S. Lewis describes it, it's like seeing an image in shattered pieces of a mirror. The mirror that reflects the whole truth is Sacred Tradition that subsists within the Church.

That humankind had such myths tells us that every people knew through the revelation to Adam and Eve in Genesis that God would send his Son to redeem us--but the message got clouded and obscured as people moved out from one another and human concepts got mingled in with divine revelation. This is why God called Abraham from Ur and led him to Canaan, so he, Abraham, could receive God's revelation anew apart from encrusted pagan practices and beliefs.

[/quote]

Why am I in the mood for Joseph Campbell and Bill Moyers?

Peace


#11

[quote="endaman, post:1, topic:317994"]
Hi,

I could use some clarification on this from Revelation.

Revelation
12:1 A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. 2 She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in the sky;

I feel the woman clothed with the sun is Our Lady, is this correct or are there other interpretations of this?

Thank you.

[/quote]

It is both the Madonna and the Church. Both are united in the same vocation...divine maternity.


#12

[quote="hazcompat, post:10, topic:317994"]
Why am I in the mood for Joseph Campbell and Bill Moyers?

Peace

[/quote]

:rotfl:


#13

There is another marian apparitation in Tamil Nadu, India in mid 16nth century… The first apparition took place when a Hindu boy had gone out to get milk. On his way back, the Virgin Mary appeared to him and asked for some milk for her child, which she held in her arms. The boy agreed, but when he returned home he was demanded a reason for his delay. He explained all that had happened, and seeing a surplus of milk, everyone realized that none was missing. The boy took his master to the place of the apparition and the Virgin once again appeared to him.

Several years later, the Virgin Mary appeared to another boy, once again asking for milk, and the same miracle took place. Furthermore, this boy, who was a cripple, was cured. This time the Virgin Mary requested that they build a chapel in her honor, and so it was done. The chapel soon became a place of veneration to Mary, Our Lady of Health (“Arokia Matha”).

However, the story does not end here. Miracles have continued to happen; in particular, the miracles that occurred in the 17th century and in 2004. In the 17th century, a merchant ship from Portugal was wrecked on the coast of the gulf. The sailors invoked the Virgin Mary, Star of the Sea, and promised to build a shrine in her honor if they reached land safely. They were miraculously saved by the Virgin and upon their arrival they were taken to the Chapel that was built in honor of Our Lady of Vailankanni. They transformed the simple chapel into a shrine, which in time has undergone several restorations until turning into a truly majestic sanctuary. On November 3rd, 1962, Pope John XXIII elevated the Shrine of Our Lady of Velankanni to the rank of basilica.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRl_LUHGBsaVedv7e5dc7P-l_1NW1xjKh2X5bBJadA7XkvF6js9_Q

Image of this mary is perfectly similar to the image of lady in the book of revelation. Women clothed with sun. Moon under her feet. Wore a crown with twelve stars…


#14

[quote="jerry_joseph, post:13, topic:317994"]
There is another marian apparitation in Tamil Nadu, India in mid 16nth century.. The first apparition took place when a Hindu boy had gone out to get milk. On his way back, the Virgin Mary appeared to him and asked for some milk for her child, which she held in her arms. The boy agreed, but when he returned home he was demanded a reason for his delay. He explained all that had happened, and seeing a surplus of milk, everyone realized that none was missing. The boy took his master to the place of the apparition and the Virgin once again appeared to him.

Several years later, the Virgin Mary appeared to another boy, once again asking for milk, and the same miracle took place. Furthermore, this boy, who was a cripple, was cured. This time the Virgin Mary requested that they build a chapel in her honor, and so it was done. The chapel soon became a place of veneration to Mary, Our Lady of Health ("Arokia Matha").

However, the story does not end here. Miracles have continued to happen; in particular, the miracles that occurred in the 17th century and in 2004. In the 17th century, a merchant ship from Portugal was wrecked on the coast of the gulf. The sailors invoked the Virgin Mary, Star of the Sea, and promised to build a shrine in her honor if they reached land safely. They were miraculously saved by the Virgin and upon their arrival they were taken to the Chapel that was built in honor of Our Lady of Vailankanni. They transformed the simple chapel into a shrine, which in time has undergone several restorations until turning into a truly majestic sanctuary. On November 3rd, 1962, Pope John XXIII elevated the Shrine of Our Lady of Velankanni to the rank of basilica.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRl_LUHGBsaVedv7e5dc7P-l_1NW1xjKh2X5bBJadA7XkvF6js9_Q

Image of this mary is perfectly similar to the image of lady in the book of revelation. Women clothed with sun. Moon under her feet. Wore a crown with twelve stars..

[/quote]

I remember seeing the story that you said on ewtn. They had a 30 minute documentary about it.


#15

[quote="endaman, post:1, topic:317994"]
Hi,

I could use some clarification on this from Revelation.

Revelation
12:1 A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. 2 She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in the sky;

I feel the woman clothed with the sun is Our Lady, is this correct or are there other interpretations of this?

Thank you.

[/quote]

Read these verses, first read 2 Samuel 6:1-17 compare that to Luke 1:39-57, that talks about the ark. Then read from genesis 1:1 all the way to genesis 3:15, compare that to John 1:1 all the way to John 2:7, that talks about the Woman.

You see the kings mother played an important role in the kingdom, see 1 or 2 of kings when Solomon's mother intercedes. This is why John in revelation states a Woman appeared.


#16

[quote="chero23, post:15, topic:317994"]
Read these verses, first read 2 Samuel 6:1-17 compare that to Luke 1:39-57, that talks about the ark. Then read from genesis 1:1 all the way to genesis 3:15, compare that to John 1:1 all the way to John 2:7, that talks about the Woman.

You see the kings mother played an important role in the kingdom, see 1 or 2 of kings when Solomon's mother intercedes. This is why John in revelation states a Woman appeared.

[/quote]

Good , interesting


#17

Here are some words from a sermon by Blessed Isaac of Stella (Liturgy of Hours, Office of Readings, Saturday in the Second Week of Advent):....In the inspired Scriptures, what is said in a universal sense of the virgin mother, the Church, is understood in an individual sense of the Virgin Mary, and what is said in a particular sense of the virgin mother Mary is rightly understood in a general sense of the virgin mother, the Church. When either is spoken of, the meaning can be understood of both, almost without qualification.


#18

Traditionally the Church understands the woman to be the Church while it has a spiritual application to the Blessed Lady. Personally for me I like a terminology that Fr. William Most used called "multiple fulfillements", which he used concerning the prophecies by Jesus in the Gospels that apply to the destruction of Jerusalem and the End Times. I think that the Woman in Rev. 12 can be thought to be multiply applied to the Church and the Blessed Lady.


#19

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