Right to die billboard causes a big stir

I think perhaps you should reread my posts in this thread.

But if its my ‘right’ to die, then why do I have to be suffering in extreme pain, or about to die in a few months anyway…if its my ‘right’, and I ‘choose’ to die, why do I need to meet your special circumstances?? Maybe I dont ‘believe’ in waiting until it comes to that point, you dont ‘believe’ in God, we all have our ‘beliefs’, don’t judge me…I may want to die, now. Today wasnt so great of a day for me, afterall. As my ‘right’, I should be able to call the doctor and schedule an appt for 3:30 this afternoon. In fact, it should be today. I dont want to wait until tomarrow. If I dont change my mind in the mean time, FORCING me to live until then, since I’m sooooo miserable…is well, tantamount to TORTURE.

In that circumstance, you could do it yourself. It would still be illegal for anyone to assist because there is no legitimate medical reason and no advance directive.

What if I dont do it right? What if it doesnt work?? What if I permanently scar or damage myself in some way? Could I sue you, as a Doctor, for negligence or something? Since you were unable to provide my ‘medical care’ in a timely manner??

Whats an ‘advance directive’?? And why would I need a ‘legitimate reason’ to invoke my own ‘Right’? Its my ‘Right’ so that means I’m entitled to it, not like a Driver’s License, so there should be no ‘test’…

Why would you try to sue someone that wasn’t involved?

An advance directive usually takes the form of a living will. In this context, it would express your wish for euthenasia in the event of severe incapacitation (i.e. a vegetative state) or terminal illness if you could not perforom the act yourself.

You don’t need an advance directive or a legitimate medical reason to commit suicide yourself. You would need those things if you’re seeking assisted suicide.

Abortion and Euthanasia = Accident and Emergency

Abortion = Accident: As in people want to get an abortion because they believe it was an accident getting pregnant. They don’t understand the progressive physiology of conception so they try to kill it. They have turned life upside down.

Euthanasia = Emergency: As in people who are dying from a terminal illness or in pain and suffering must be cared for and helped through a trial and tribulations. However, it too, has been turned upside down and has become the death rather then the saving grace of life.

The west is sick.

At this point in the post, I was switching to the general “you.” Sorry for not making that clearer.

Charlotte:

But if its my ‘right’ to die, then why do I have to be suffering in extreme pain, or about to die in a few months anyway

“Rights” aren’t magical things floating around in the sky – rights are concepts created by humans to give privileges to citizens. “Right to die” is shorthand for “granting citizens the privilege to choose to end their lives in certain situations that we’re mostly all going to agree on.”

And our agreement is based on our values – for the most part, we don’t value dragging out needless suffering if there is no hope for a patient to live, though we do value treating physical and mental diseases and healing people.

We’re talking specifically here about people who are not going to survive and whose existence is going to be filled with nothing but suffering. Again, if you’re in that situation and you really, really want to feel the suffering, nobody is going to stop you. All we’re saying is that people in that situation should be granted the privilege to have their lives ended by a professional.

This ^ is exactly why this whole “right to die” movement is a scam. Anyone who wants to take their own life can do so. What’s stopping them? What they want is to be able to force doctors to help, and to coerce others into believing it’s their “duty” to die when their lives become a “burden” on others. It’s such a crock. You want to die, go ahead and kill yourself. Don’t expect me to help you (either physically or financially), and don’t expect ME to die prematurely just because I’m sick or disabled or even “terminal” (we’re all “terminal” the minute we’re conceived).

In Christ,

Ellen

I think you’re missing the point. There are circumstances in which people might find themselves in which they would no longer want to live but are unable to commit suicide. That is what an advance directive is for in this case.

Originally Posted by EmperorNapoleon
In that circumstance, you could do it yourself. It would still be illegal for anyone to assist because there is no legitimate medical reason and no advance directive.

OWNED!

:clapping:

eh… no. What it seeks is to allow doctors to help. I’m not saying that is right policy to adopt, but if differs significantly from what you say.

Why? Whats stopping someone from killing themselves if they really want to? Why would a person have to have someone do it for them if they were totally comitted to the act?

People pull of suicide in the most random of places. Jail cells, hospital rooms…etc. etc. Theres nothing stopping them now. If someone is truly committed to the act, why would they need anyone’s assistance?

One thing I like about the US is its freedom of expression. People can say almost anything they want. Here in Brazil, depending on what you say, you’d be massacred and censorship would really be a problem, although the military dictatorship is over and Brazil has been a democracy again since 1985.

Along with freedom of expression, I’m all for free press. The fact that I’m agains assisted suicide doesn’t mean I’d want to censor people who are in favor of it.

The problem though, is that NONE of us are going to survive. We are all going to die. End of story. What we are arguing here is how close does one have to be to death before it becomes a right to die? Take someone with depression, or an incurable illness or injury. They are going to suffer their entire life. But is it okay to kill them? How close do they have to be to death? How much suffering constitutes a right to die? Just because someone is diagnosed with HIV or AIDS doesn’t mean that they can’t enjoy what life they have left. Heck, for all I know I could die tomorrow.

The problem is, the whole scenario is too gray of an area. As I said above, how close to death is close enough? How much suffering is torture enough? Who decides this? I live in a “right to die” state, and I am terrified of that. I don’t want the government or anyone else telling me or any other person when their life has essentially become so useless that they can kill themselves. Every life is precious, whether that is a terminal cancer patient, an HIV patient, or a healthy child. I watched my aunt die of cancer, and while she could barely walk, you could see that she treasured every “miserable” second of her last days. We need to help and love people so they can treasure their life, however short it may be. :slight_smile:

And why would a doctor, who is supposed to first “Do no harm”, want to help someone die? Help them manage their pain, yes. Help them be as comfortable as possible in their final weeks, days, or hours, yes. But no doctor should want to help anyone die. There are other ways to relieve suffering.

In Christ,

Ellen

A vegetative state for one.

I’m reminded of Memorial Hospital in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. The hospital was abandoned by their corporate headquarters and ignored by the government. On the outside; floodwater, raw sewage, looters, and rapists. It lost power as it’s backup generators failed, there was no clean water, and very little food. Four patients were dead within the first 48 hours of the storm’s landfall. The doctors and nurses were surrounded by dying patients and 1,200 New Orleans residents who sought shelter from the hurricane. They had limited resources and had to make some very difficult decisions. The decision was made to euthanize critical patients which would not survive as each case arose to alieviate their suffering and preserve valuable resources for the other patients. All in all, 17 patients were euthanized while another 28 died as a result of the unfortunate. conditions there. Such conditions provide one reason why a doctor would want to help someone die and it is the right thing to do.

If they are in a vegetative state, how do you know they want to die? What if, beforehand they sign some documents saying that if this situation were to occur, assist with suicide, but really, (while in vegetative state) they have some sort of consciousness and really dont want to die? How would you know for sure? And then theres cases like these:

The 56-year-old Vista man’s heart stopped in late January and helay in a coma for 96 hours before his family tearfully gave the OKfor physicians at Tri-City Medical Center to disconnect lifesupport. That’s when Connolly woke up.

and even more scary…

‘I screamed, but there was nothing to hear’: Man trapped in 23-year ‘coma’ reveals horror of being unable to tell doctors he was conscious

That’s what an advance directive is for and, in the absence of such a doccument, the legal guardian decides.

The simple answer is; if you feel you may have doubts then don’t create an advance directive. The legal guardian already makes the choice in the absence of such a directive.

The fact that he woke up should be of no surprise to anyone. The coma was medically induced so of course he would wake up when the doctor stopped indroducing Barbiturates into his body.

Such cases are extremely rare. It should also be pointed out that he wasn’t telling this story; the nurse was as is evident by the video footage.

Only in California man I swear…SMH

Isn’t it interesting these signs are showing up in the same state that the Knights of Columbus supported Proposition 8?

It’s obviously a ploy against the Church and against the Knights of Columbus, they know that most knights are in their 60s and over. So the homosexual pride crowd try to encourage suicide to try to get rid of the people opposing their family decaying agenda.

I hope Proposition 8 get enacted into the UN. Marriage and family should always remain between a man and a woman.

While I think that a fair deal of the “right to die” crowd support homosexual marriage and a fair deal of the “right to marriage” crowd support assisted suicide I…don’t think this an intentional ploy against the Californian KoC >.>

Rather, it seems to me that targeting California is due to it being:

A. a large, heavily-populated influential state

B. it being a state with a fairly strong (though, as Prop 8 showed, not always victorious) liberal demographic.

I am not particularly surprised that the issue is heating up–it is really only a matter of time before most states are forced to address it in some way.

Also, I don’t see prop 8 getting into the UN–and good luck enforcing anything in the UN anyways :smiley:

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