Rites?


#1

RITES?? Why are there so many Rites within the CC?
I realize the answer to this may be long but I am an outsider here, non-catholic, and I am trying to understand that the CC is the ONE true church(an idea that makes the CC very apealing), and yet I keep seeing things about other “kinds” of rites and from where I sit, it looks alot like the protestants with there different kinds of churches.
I have even heard that other Orthodox churches within the CC have there own SEES.
:whacky: Now I am really confuesd.
Anyone care to explain this to me? Please?
Thanks,
Allie


#2

Allison,

I believe there are 23 different rites within the Church, the Latin rite (Roman Catholic) being the largest to which the vast majority of Catholics belong. The other 22 are the Eastern rites-they don’t teach anything different that what is taught in churches of the Latin rite, but their liturgies (the way their Masses are carried out) have varying styles. That’s the only difference between the Latin rite and the Eastern rites. The Eastern rites are in full communion with the Pope in Rome.


#3

A “See” is just a diocese. Each bishop has their own regardless of what rite they belong to.

As for the reason for different rites? It’s because in discipline there is some freedom available. The faith is the same (every single doctrine), but the way in which the faith is applied may vary.


#4

Some examples of these Eastern Rite Catholic churches (not to be confused with Eastern Orthodox) would be the Ruthenian Catholic Church, the Greek Catholic Church, or the Syrian Catholic Church.


#5

Again, please don’t equate different rites within the Church with the different sects of protestantism. Different protestant churches have different teachings. The different rites of the Catholic Church all have the same set of teachings, as set by the Bishop of Rome (Pope).
As forthright said, a “See” is just another name for a diocese. For example, the diocese or see of Rome is referred to as The Holy Apostolic See and is recognized as preeminent. If, for example, someone were a Catholic residing in Washington, D.C., they might say that they belonged to the See or Diocese of Washington, D.C. BTW, in Washington’s case it would be an Archdiocese (no real difference, just a bit more prestigious).


#6

I believe the main reason for the Eastern rite churches retaining their own liturgies is simply that they don’t want their Masses “latinized.” Very often, the cultures of these Eastern European and Middle Eastern countries are unique from the cultures of countries where Latin-rite Catholicism (Western Europe, Latin America, the U.S., etc.) is prevalent. Therefore, they prefer their liturgies to be shaped by their own cultural influences, not those of the Western world.


#7

From EWTN.com

ewtn.com/expert/answers/catholic_rites_and_churches.htm
[left]RITES [/left]

A Rite represents an ecclesiastical, or church, tradition about how the sacraments are to be celebrated. Each of the sacraments has at its core an essential nature which must be satisfied for the sacrament to be confected or realized. This essence - of matter, form and intention - derives from the divinely revealed nature of the particular sacrament. It cannot be changed by the Church. Scripture and Sacred Tradition, as interpreted by the Magisterium, tells us what is essential in each of the sacraments (2 Thes. 2:15).

When the apostles brought the Gospel to the major cultural centers of their day the essential elements of religious practice were inculturated into those cultures. This means that the essential elements were clothed in the symbols and trappings of the particular people, so that the rituals conveyed the desired spiritual meaning to that culture. In this way the Church becomes all things to all men that some might be saved (1 Cor. 9:22).

[left]There are three major groupings of Rites based on this initial transmission of the faith, the Roman, the Antiochian (Syria) and the Alexandrian (Egypt). Later on the Byzantine derived as a major Rite from the Antiochian, under the influence of St. Basil and St. John Chrysostom. From these four derive the over 20 liturgical Rites present in the Church today. [/left]


#8

Allsion,

the rites are different styles of worship, so to speak. We all believe the same thing, but because we come from many different cultures, different styles of worship are appropriate in different areas of the world. As you noted, dancing (liturgical dancing, done during the mass), is NOT appropriate in the US as that has never been a part of our culture. However, in Africa, where dances, culturally, are used in worship, dancing may be appropriate for their worship. We all believe in the same things, follow the pope, but worship a bit differently.


#9

The different rites do not reflect differences in theology and doctine (as is true with many Protestant denominations: for example, the differences between a fundamentlaist Baptist and an Anglican are NOT insignificant, and indeed include matters of salvation). They reflect differences in worship style and cultural differences. The different rites are all united under the Pope—did you watch the funeral Mass of our late Pope, John Paul II? If so, you may remember various bishops from the eastern churches dressed in their particular vestments.

I find the other rites of the Catholic church very interesting. I’m glad to see that kind of real “diversity” within the Church. It’s not a question of right or wrong here—contrast this with a fundamentalist Baptist’s view of an Anglican: they hold each others’ views to be wrong in some very important areas, and it’s more than just a difference in worship style.

Some might say that Catholics have their own divisions by pointing to dissenting Catholics, but they’re forgetting that dissenters are just that—dissenters. That implies a standard by which they can be judged and held to be dissenting. That standard is union with the Magisterium. Protestantism, by contrast, has no such standard, so that while the Baptist may feel that the Anglican approach to theology is wrong, by what standard can he say so? The usual response is “the Bible is my standard”, but the Anglicans are using that too, and both claim that the Holy Spirit is guiding them.

Anyway, here on the forum there are a few eastern rite Catholics: I know of at least one Byzantine Catholic, and there may be more. I haven’t been to a Byzantine Divine Liturgy (what we call Mass), but hope to in the near future.


#10

Is it true that some of the other rites have married preists?

If that is the case how can they still be being obedient to the Pope?

And, what is the eastern orthodox ,is this not a recognized rite under the Pope as well?

Thanks again!!
God bless!
Allie


#11

Generally, orthodox rites are not under the Pope, due to e huge disagreement in around 1060 ad.

Special allowances have been made for married priests due to their circumstances, such as a convert to becoming Roman Catholic who was previously a married priest under an orthodox or eastern rite.

Eastern rites are very similar to the orthodox, but acknowledge the Pope, and have married priests also, but even with limitations.


#12

[quote=CollegeKid]Allison,

I believe there are 23 different rites within the Church, the Latin rite (Roman Catholic) being the largest to which the vast majority of Catholics belong. The other 22 are the Eastern rites-they don’t teach anything different that what is taught in churches of the Latin rite, but their liturgies (the way their Masses are carried out) have varying styles. That’s the only difference between the Latin rite and the Eastern rites. The Eastern rites are in full communion with the Pope in Rome.
[/quote]

The Catholic Church is a communion of 24 different Churches using 8 different Rites. There are 24 different churches because of the culture, language, and customs in different areas where the Apostles went to establish Christianity. (Off the top of my head here) I believe that the Byzantine Rite is used by 13 of those Churches, the Latin Church uses the Roman Rite.


#13

[quote=allisonP]Is it true that some of the other rites have married preists?

If that is the case how can they still be being obedient to the Pope?

And, what is the eastern orthodox ,is this not a recognized rite under the Pope as well?

Thanks again!!
God bless!
Allie
[/quote]

The Pope is the visable head of the Catholic Church. He is also the Patriarch of the Latin or Western Chruch. Many of the Eastern Churches also have Patriarchs over their Church. The Western Church has it Canon Law and the Eastern Churches have their own Canon Law. Pope John XXIII called for the Eastern Churches to have their own Canon Law to protect against “Latinizing”. John Paul II finalized that Law and put it into effect as the CCL for Latin Catholics and the CCEO for the Eastern Churches. The CCEO allows for certain disciplines that the CCL does not. For instance Clergy that are Married prior to being Ordained remain married. However Clergy who were not Married at the time of their Ordination cannot enter Marriage after Ordination.

All but two of the Eastern Churches broke with the Bishop of Rome over different doctrinal expressions from time to time and re-united on and off with a major split in the 11th century. After attempts at reunion with teh whole of the Eastern Church. The Bishop of Rome began seeking reunion with each individual Church. These individual reunions have been taking place for many cetnuries now. Those Eastern Christians who refuse to return to unilon with the Bishop of Rome remain in what is called the Eastern Orthodox Church. Which is a mirror image for the most part of their Eastern Catholic Church.


#14

[quote=allisonP]Is it true that some of the other rites have married preists?

If that is the case how can they still be being obedient to the Pope?

And, what is the eastern orthodox ,is this not a recognized rite under the Pope as well?

Thanks again!!
God bless!
Allie
[/quote]

Priestly celibacy became the norm in the Latin Church, but not in the East. Thus, the non-Latin churches have been permitted to maintain the practice of married clergy (a married man may be ordained, but an ordained man may not marry – get that?). Under a pastoral provision offered by Pope JP-2, some married clergy who have converted to the Catholic faith have been ordained in the Church. Interestingly, these men are often the staunchest defenders of the discipline of celibacy.


#15

Hi, Allison!

Actually, The Catholic Church is made up of 23 separate sui iuris Churches, each with its own governance (sui iuris roughly translates to “self governing”), its own traditions and methods of worship (also known as “rite,” although many of these Churches share the same rite) and its own Code of Canon Law. All 23 Churches, however, share the same Dogmas and Articles of Faith (although they may express this uniform faith in different ways). All 23 Churches also recognize the Pope of Rome as the successor of Peter, the pastoral shepherd of all Catholic faithful.

Because of this, any Catholic individual is absolutely free to worship in any of the 23 sui iuris Churches - each is “just as Catholic” as the next, despite the fact that the Latin Church, commonly known as the Roman Catholic Church is far and away the largest of the 23, many, many times larger, in fact, than the other 22 Churches put together!

Confusing, huh? Well, if I may, I’d like to copy something I posted in another thread that may make things a bit clearer…

When a pope is elected, he assumes three roles within the Church:

  1. He becomes the Bishop of Rome;
  2. He becomes the Patriarch of the Latin Church;
  3. He becomes the Universal Pastor of all

Catholics in communion with Rome.

The Latin Church is far and away the largest and most influential of the 23 Churches sui iuris that comprise the Catholic Church - it is worth remembering, however, that it is not the only one. There are 22 Eastern Catholic Churches, each with its own Church heierarchy (in some cases this is a patriarch, in others a metropolitan archbishop, and so on) that are in full communion with the See of Peter and, as such, are just as Catholic as the Latin Church.

It’s been estimated that upwards of 95% of the Pope’s responsibilities are directly related to his role as the Patriarch of the Latin Church (or, as the media continues to call it, the Roman Catholic Church), with the remaining 5% or so dedicated to his responsibilities as the Bishop of the Diocese of Rome (most of these responsibilities being delegated to others) and to actual matters of Faith and Dogma that impact all Catholics in communion with the Holy See.

Let me give an example: when the Holy Father speaks with regard to an issue such as married clergy, he is speaking as the Patriarch of the Latin Church, not as the Ecumenical Pontiff of all Catholics. Since the marital status of the Catholic priesthood is not a matter of Faith or Dogma, he cannot dictate to the other 22 Churches sui iuris how they address this issue - that’s up to their own Church heierarchy and Code of Canon Law. This is obvious in the fact that a married priesthood in the Eastern Catholic Churches, especially those outside of the USA, is quite common - and I again stress: these are Catholic priests, every bit as Catholic as your typical Fr. Joe at St. John’s Roman Catholic Church down the street.

(continued)


#16

[left]

The ongoing confusion stems from the fact that many (indeed, most

) people continue to confuse the Holy Father’s papacy with his patriarcate. Since he is obviously the most visible of all the leaders of the 23 Catholic Churches sui iuris (by a long shot!), the assumption is that the Latin Catholic Church (or, if you will, the Roman Catholic Church) is the only Catholic Church and that everything he says applies unilaterally across the entire Catholic Church (fact is, most people don’t even know that there are 22 other Churches that, together with the Latin Church, comprise our Catholic Church). It is this overriding prominence of the Latin Church within the framework of our Holy Mother Church that leads to confusion. Using my example from above, many people (including many Catholics) will say, “The Pope says there can be no married priests, so any Church with married priests cannot possibly be Catholic!”[/left]

Here’s the difference: the Pope did not say this… it was the Patriarch of the Latin Church who said it! Same man - true - but different role. Subtle but significant difference. Obviously, in the eyes of most people (and especially in the eyes of the media) these two distinct roles of the Holy Father have melded into one, such that it has become the natural tendency to ascribe all of his pronouncements specific to his own Church sui iuris, the Latin (Roman) Church, as binding upon all Catholics. They do not recognize that he was speaking for just one segment (albeit a very large one!) of our Catholic Church. The assumption therefore follows that since the Church he governs is the Roman Catholic Church, then the Church he shepherds must also be called the Roman Catholic Church. It falls upon the shoulders of us, the Catholic faithful, to remember and reinforce this distinction within our Holy Father’s roles - who better than us to set the rest of the world straight?

Yes, he may be the Patriarch of the Roman Catholic Church, but he is certainly much more… he is the Pope of the Catholic Church, Roman or otherwise.

All of this, by the way, is nothing new. This is exactly the picture of our Catholic Church since the time of the Apostles up until the Great Schism of 1054 - multiple “Churches” with their own governance and canonical jurisdictions, each responsible for their own day-to-day operation, but each recognizing the man who sits in the Chair of Peter as the man graced with the Inspiration of the Holy Spirit with regard to matters of Faith and Dogma.


#17

[quote=a pilgrim]Hi, Allison!

Actually, The Catholic Church is made up of 23 separate sui iuris Churches, each with its own governance (sui iuris roughly translates to “self governing”), its own traditions and methods of worship (also known as “rite,” although many of these Churches share the same rite) and its own Code of Canon Law. All 23 Churches, however, share the same Dogmas and Articles of Faith (although they may express this uniform faith in different ways). All 23 Churches also recognize the Pope of Rome as the successor of Peter, the pastoral shepherd of all Catholic faithful.

Because of this, any Catholic individual is absolutely free to worship in any of the 23 sui iuris Churches - each is “just as Catholic” as the next, despite the fact that the Latin Church, commonly known as the Roman Catholic Church is far and away the largest of the 23, many, many times larger, in fact, than the other 22 Churches put together!

Confusing, huh? Well, if I may, I’d like to copy something I posted in another thread that may make things a bit clearer…

(continued)

[/quote]

There are 24 Catholic Churches (1 Western and 23 Eastern) grouped in 8 Rites.


#18

Allison,

One thing to understand is that celibacy is a matter of DISCIPLINE, not doctrine. There is a major difference between the two. Disciplines can and sometimes do change, whereas doctrines may develop but are not reversed.

That being said, the discipline of celibacy is not likely to be changed in the Latin (Western, or Roman) Catholic Church. She has very good reasons for this discipline, and it will remain—don’t buy all the hype about the need for change here. Having said that, I think it’s perfectly A-OK that other Catholic rites do not have the celibacy requirement.


#19

[quote=Sherlock]Allison,

One thing to understand is that celibacy is a matter of DISCIPLINE, not doctrine. There is a major difference between the two. Disciplines can and sometimes do change, whereas doctrines may develop but are not reversed.

That being said, the discipline of celibacy is not likely to be changed in the Latin (Western, or Roman) Catholic Church. She has very good reasons for this discipline, and it will remain—don’t buy all the hype about the need for change here. Having said that, I think it’s perfectly A-OK that other Catholic rites do not have the celibacy requirement.
[/quote]

Its also important to remember that there are married priests within the Latin Church today,

They are converts who have been ordained or conditionally ordained.


#20

[quote=ByzCath]Its also important to remember that there are married priests within the Latin Church today,

They are converts who have been ordained or conditionally ordained.
[/quote]

That’s right----and God bless 'em all.


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