I’ve been watching this whole sorry mess but have to say now that I can’t for the life of me understand why some people like this Mr. S continue to defend or make excuses for this man or blame other people even after his bishop told him to stop. It’s unbelievable to me. What exactly will it take for these people? Some people like Catholicdude at least get there’s a problem but they confuse the issue by trying to play the “both sides were wrong” game. Nonsense.
Sungenis has attacked Jews for years but he was left alone for a long time. I think everyone hoped he’d finally get over it and move on. He didn’t. The only thing that seems to be stopping him finally is that his bishop told him he had to stop.
Did you see the list of things he’s done and said in these places? It’s a scandal that any Catholic would write such things or defend them.
Read them all through. They’re all documented with Mr. Sungenis’ own words.
It’s great this is finally happening but disturbing about the revisionist history some Sungenis supporters are trying to engage in here, even now. And let’s not forget that so much of this is still out there on other websites and in print even if Sungenis takes everything down at his website.
Don’t be fooled.
Pray for Mr. Sungenis. But don’t be fooled by the groupies and spin-masters.
Sungenis seems to finally get that this is not just a he-said, she-said contest or whatever. They should follow his lead.
Thats just it, some of the worst slander came from a few who are now seen as heroes. I took a fair look and some did present good evidence of Sungenis crossing the line though the mass majority following this forget there is a level of freedom of thought he as an individual is entitled to.
You are misreading me again. The Bishop said Sungenis crossed the line in certain things he said about the Jews, he even admits this. At the same time the OVERALL problem was that this issue had gone from specific comments about Jewish issues to a smear campaign with each “rebuttal” getting worse. It was embarrassing to see this going on in the Catholic apologetics world.
All of this started because Dr. Sungenis put up one thing after another about Jews, before anyone wrote anything about him. I mean, come on, I’m no Israel first guy either and I think the Palestinians are getting a really raw deal. But the stuff he was putting up was wrong a long time before critics came out against him. And until the bishop stepped in, he wouldn’t stop.
He “crossed the line”, that is what is admitted by all including him. Crossing the line in NO way means everything he ever said was wrong, mean, false, etc…but many ended up lumping it all into the same pile. For example you say “the stuff he was putting up was wrong a long time before”…no SOME stuff, not all, you need to make that distinction.
I know you like Dr. Sungenis’ work from before all of this and so do I, but your not helping anything by trying to make it look like what it wasn’t. I’ve read most of the articles on both sides now. And when even Ben Douglass jumped ship I really had to look closer. Douglass is with the Sungenis critics now and so am I.
Actually if you have read all of what I have said in the past on this I think Im one of the few, if not the only one, who refuses to throw a blanket of condemnation either way. Some almost blindly blanket sungenis as the “bad guy” some almost blindly give him all the support. He said SOME stuff that was out of line, while SOME other stuff was nothing less than his right to express himself (yet he was daemonized for it all).
Mr. S., I have no idea what you are talking about. He put up articles by White Supremacists and Holocaust deniers for pete’s sake.
That SPECIFIC issue was one issue where he crossed the line, but dont fall into the trap that EVERYTHING that he ever said was wrong, lies, etc.
You made a good point, people totally forget the free speech factor here both as an American and Catholic. As Catholics we actually have more freedom that most realize, though we also believe the Bishop can step in when he feels it necessary and we must obey.
No one I saw ever demonized Dr. Sungenis for EVERYTHING he wrote about Jews, even the critics at Robert Sungenis and the Jews and I don’t either. So you need to make that distinction.
I agree with Rick that it’s nonsense to think if people just backed off so would Dr. Sungenis. That’s just not him. When he thinks he’s onto something, he’s a pit bull. And it took his bishop to stop him.
He must be influencial to alot of people because his Q&A will set you back $3 a ask a question to him.
The deal is, this Sungenis has a true zeal for the RCC. Can’t blame a guy for a love for his church.
The root of this problem is the belief that Jews who come to Christ need to lose their Israeli identiy, whether they have been dispersed throughout the world the last 2000 years or back in their promised land. They cant commerate the Passover in rememberance of the Exodus and foreshadowing in Jesus, etc., etc. And the worst of it all is the bogus claim that the idea of Israel is still in God’s prophetic plan is really a Darbian realization 150 years young.
St.Paul said ALL Israel will be saved when the Deliverer comes out of Zion, Zech 14 said his feet will touch the Mt. of Olives. The 2 men dressed in white told the disciples on the Mount of Olives in Acts that this SAME Jesus will return the same way from heaven in the same manner was taken to heaven.
Remove Israel and the Jews from prophecy and you see what kind of apologetics follow. No matter how one claims to seek they really just want Christians and Jews to get along, cutting them out of their scriptures is not a good start.