Romans 6:3...


#1

Protestants use it constantly to show that baptism is only a proffesion of faith…
Though I try to tell them all the passages that show baptism essential for salvation and then try to show them that this passage speaks of how that baptism is used and necessary for salvation, they never buy it. How can I really go in deepth and show them that it’s actually true?..


#2

go to this link

scripturecatholic.com/baptism.html


#3

Rom 6:3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

I dont see how this says anything about baptism being only a profession of faith. Why do you have the burden of disproving erroneous interpretations? Why are they not being asked to support their own claims? For some reason we always give Protestants the benefit of the doubt and go running around trying to disprove some random Protestant teaching while we are never given the benefit of the doubt even though our teachings have been handed down since the time of the apostles. Something is wrong with this if you ask me. If you give them the Truth and they dismiss it out of hand, then there is not much else you can do. You are going to kill yourself trying to answer all their claims, they can think of a new one the minute you refute the last one!

It is simply a burden that does not belong to you, dont play their games.


#4

[quote=martino]Rom 6:3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

I dont see how this says anything about baptism being only a profession of faith. Why do you have the burden of disproving erroneous interpretations? Why are they not being asked to support their own claims? For some reason we always give Protestants the benefit of the doubt and go running around trying to disprove some random Protestant teaching while we are never given the benefit of the doubt even though our teachings have been handed down since the time of the apostles. Something is wrong with this if you ask me. If you give them the Truth and they dismiss it out of hand, then there is not much else you can do. You are going to kill yourself trying to answer all their claims, they can think of a new one the minute you refute the last one!

It is simply a burden that does not belong to you, dont play their games.
[/quote]

But here’s an interesting thing, like with john 3:16 "May be saved"
Where as in other bibles it says “will be saved” or something to that affect. When quoting from my NAB Catholic bible sometimes I’m accused of twisting scripture, or “thats not what it says!!!”.
How do I respond to this???


#5

[quote=Valtiel]But here’s an interesting thing, like with john 3:16 "May be saved"
Where as in other bibles it says “will be saved” or something to that affect. When quoting from my NAB Catholic bible sometimes I’m accused of twisting scripture, or “thats not what it says!!!”.
How do I respond to this???
[/quote]

First of all do not respond as if your on the defensive. The Douay-Rheims Version says “may be saved”, but in any case that is really not the point because “may be saved” could have the same meaning as “will be saved”. The question is not for you but for them; are they saying that everyone who believes in Jesus is guaranteed to go the heaven when they die? If the answer is yes, remind them that that would include 1.1 billion Catholics. So if Catholics are “saved” because we believe in Jesus then why are they arguing with you to begin with? Shouldn’t they spend their time worrying about those that are not saved?


#6

“May be saved” is appropriate IMHO because this is all God’s will, not ours. It is God’s decision who is saved and who is not, there is no way for us to know with certainty, even about ourselves. The Bible is clear on this. So what the Word here is really saying is that “God may choose to exercise His will to save you when…” - not implying HE will be fickle in deciding yes or know (as “may” can mean that also), but meaing it is His decision alone.


#7

Firstly Rom6:3 - I can’t see that this verse says anything whatsoever about faith. Surely if we are baptised “INTO his death” baptism must have some sort of effect (that’s just going by this verse of course). We aren’t baptised just to remember his death or just to say we believe he died. We are baptised INTO his death. (btw I used to be a baptist preacher - so anyone can change their views!)

Secondly I’m confused - what is all this about “may be saved” vs “will be saved”? Here’s the KJV and then DRB and NAB for John 3:16-17

King James: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
[size=3][size=2][/size][/size]
[size=3][size=2]DRB[/size] For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son: that whosoever believeth in him may not perish, but may have life everlasting. For God sent not his Son into the world, to judge the world: but that the world may be saved by him. [/size]

NAB For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.

If the New American is twisting scripture, so is the King James. If anything on these 2 verses the New American is closer to the King James than to the Douay. Interesting too how close the KJV and DRB translations are. (if they don’t like the King James as being out of date, the Modern King James and Holman Christian Standard Bible also say “might” here).

Blessings

Asteroid

Ah, the joys of comparing different translations with Bible software. :slight_smile:

Some protestants (I was one for a time) would say that Catholics are not saved as they are in a cult etc etc. That they need to come out of it, find Jesus, and get saved. But that view arises from great misunderstandings. So “witnessing” to a catholic is witnessing to the unsaved in this view.
[size=3][/size]


#8

What do they have to say about Jesus’s discussion with Nicodemus in John. One must be born again of WATER and the Holy Spirit. Seem one would have to really wiggle to get around that one.


#9

When quoting from my NAB Catholic bible sometimes I’m accused of twisting scripture, or “thats not what it says!!!”.
How do I respond to this???

Go out and buy a King James Version, or my preference the New King James Version. That way you can look at what the scripture says in their Bible before you say it.


#10

And remember you are dealing with people who think Catholics have “added to” Scripture in the first place. Another argument, another day.

:hmmm: You probably could even just ask for a non-catholic Bible and they would joyfully give you one. That way you can all be reading the same Scripture.

But respectfully, I wonder if you should continue with these conversations. Your faith is clearly being shaken. And although **I **know they have false interpretations, that I can show you in the Bible where they are wrong, you do not have this confidence in the promises of Christ to the Catholic Church as stated in Scripture.

AT the very least, spend the same amount of time at some good scriptural catholic sites to build your faith and knowledge. Please. scripturecatholic.com/

God Bless you and keep you safe,
Maria


#11

[quote=Valtiel]Protestants use it constantly to show that baptism is only a proffesion of faith…
Though I try to tell them all the passages that show baptism essential for salvation and then try to show them that this passage speaks of how that baptism is used and necessary for salvation, they never buy it. How can I really go in deepth and show them that it’s actually true?..
[/quote]

Rom.6:3…
"Are you not aware that we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death" ?
I pity the fool who thinks baptism is only a “proffession of faith” or a meaningless “symbol” that has no power.

May it be done unto him according to his faith ! :smiley:

1Ptr.3:21…“You are now saved by a baptismal bath which corresponds to this exactly.”
“This”… meaning Noah’s Ark… and the water that carried the Ark and it’s passengers to safety.

The best way for you and I to “really go in depth”… is to discover for ourselves and learn to REST in our Baptism the same way a little child would rest and play on the wood floor of Noah’s Ark.

For a person who does not BELIEVE in Baptism…Heb 4:3 remains in effect “Thus I awore in my anger, ‘They shall never enter into my rest’ .”

Baptism is a GIFT from God, anyone who depreciates it, insulth the Holy Spirit. Heb 10:29 & Mark 16:16.

Enjoy your own ride in "Noah’s Ark"
Let the Power of your own Baptism CARRY you safely over the flood that is sweeping over this present world.

In the Peace of Christ

gusano :smiley:


#12

all the more reason to follow Jesus’s teaching and have faith in the Church that is protected by the Holy Spirit…imagine, getting all worked up over a word in scripture from one translation to another…what great proof that Sola Scriptura is the devils best invention.


#13

[quote=Valtiel]But here’s an interesting thing, like with john 3:16 "May be saved"
Where as in other bibles it says “will be saved” or something to that affect. When quoting from my NAB Catholic bible sometimes I’m accused of twisting scripture, or “thats not what it says!!!”.
How do I respond to this???
[/quote]

“You say that I’m twisting Scripture; I say that you’re twisting Scripture. I have two thousand years of infallible teaching, with Jesus’ promise to Peter that the gates of Hell would not prevail against His church, behind me. You have …” what do they have? Most, if not all, Protestant churches began with some human’s private interpretation of the Bible.

What it comes down to is that it someone tries to tell you that your translation of the Bible is wrong, you most definitely don’t have to believe him without considerable evidence. And a Protestant translation is not sufficient evidence.

  • Liberian

#14

[quote=Catholic Tom]all the more reason to
follow Jesus’s teaching and have faith in the Church
that is protected by the Holy Spirit…

imagine, getting all worked up over a word in scripture

from one translation to another…what great proof that Sola Scriptura is the devils best invention.
[/quote]

on the other hand…think about this;
Our greatest weaknesses as Catholics is our “’'luke-warmness” about scripture…(the devil’s invention for us Catholics)

Jesus said to the Sadducees: “…you err because you know neither the scripture nor the power of God.”
He could walk into any parrish in the U.S.A. and say that, and be right on.

For instance…
What word has Jesus said… that you are truly worked-up about ?
Is there anything He has said that truly makes your heart burn…as the men on the road to Emmaus ?

“I have come to cast fire upon the earth, and how I wish it were already ignited…”! Luke 12:49

I personally get very “worked-up” over His “wish.”

I don’t mean to pick on you personally, it is just that you brought up an interesting topic. :smiley:

In the "Wish of Christ,"
gusano


#15

[quote=Valtiel]Protestants use it constantly to show that baptism is only a proffesion of faith…
Though I try to tell them all the passages that show baptism essential for salvation and then try to show them that this passage speaks of how that baptism is used and necessary for salvation, they never buy it. How can I really go in deepth and show them that it’s actually true?..
[/quote]

Hi Valtie,
You could point out to them that Christ insisted on being Baptised in water by John to fulfill righteousness.
No where in the bible is anything abstract proven without an action.
If you love me, obey me. words then action to prove
Faith is dead without works. Words then action.
You cant have faith in baptism if you havent done something. The works prove the faith.
walk in love
edwinG


#16

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