Rudolph and the Occult


#1

Santa Claus’ reindeer Rudolph may be related to the Horned God of Wicca who dies on Halloween and is reborn on the Winter Solstice and is symbolised by an antlered deer. The Horned Gods of Wicca Herne the Hunter and Cernunnos wear the horns of the stag on their heads and then mate with the Spring Goddess in the Great Rite of Spring.

The Horned God has developed our concept of the devil (horny devil) although he is more commonly portrayed with goat horns rather than antlers but he can in fact wear both.

One of the origins of Santa Claus is Odin/Woden who was a Norse Pagan creator god called All Father and is sometimes known as Skyfather. According to Wikipedia, Odin and Thor were rejected by Catholics in their baptismal vows one thousand years ago.


#2

With all due respect, your reading way too much into a pleasent and wonderful childhood story.

With all the attacks that Christmas has come under,, this "issue" shouldn't be one that Christians focus on.

Merry Christmas!


#3

Great googly moogly - this one beats all!


#4

You would be amazed how many pagan feasts were either christianized by the Church or re-wrapped into children’s stories by secular culture. This is a fact. Halloween is downright satanic at it’s origin.

While I cannot veryfy the complete accuracy of this particular tale about Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer, I am sure the OP probably isn’t too far off. By and large, it’s no big deal.

Regardless, I agree that we must remember the reason for the season… and that is the celebration of the birth of the god-man, the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


#5

Oh for the love of Pete!!


#6

[quote="FiberZilla, post:4, topic:178840"]
You would be amazed how many pagan feasts were either christianized by the Church or re-wrapped into children's stories by secular culture. This is a fact. Halloween is downright satanic at it's origin.

While I cannot veryfy the complete accuracy of this particular tale about Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer, I am sure the OP probably isn't too far off. By and large, it's no big deal.

Regardless, I agree that we must remember the reason for the season... and that is the celebration of the birth of the god-man, the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

[/quote]

In order to prevent death many pagan celebrations were transformed into Christian Feast days. I think that most people over 12 know that.:shrug:

But that's becuase God is a Jealous God. He let the pagans celebrate in order to prepare people for the celebrations to come. He then overtook these celebrations and made them all about Him.

I don't think its correct to say that Haloween was downright satanic, either, because many cultures celebrated days of the dead...which had nothing to do with Gods, Goddesses or devils.


#7

Actually (from the conclusion of doig.net/NTC09.htm)::)

"That the traditional date of December 25 for Christmas may indeed reflect the truth has been shown by the proofs that March 25 was the date of the Annunciation. A mid-winter tradition for the nativity preceded the later alignment in Rome with pagan festivals by over a century, and this would have influenced Pope Liberius' change to December 25. There is no evidence that this date was selected because of its relation to the winter solstice and the related festivals. The coinciding of Jesus' birth with Hanukkah adds further weight to the traditional date. There is no other date for the nativity supported by the church or the accumulation of evidence besides December 25.

You might also be interested in the following links:
churchyear.net/christmas.html
secondexodus.com/html/jewishcatholicdialogue/frompagans.htm

I'm willing to bet that the facts are similar for other feast days as well.


#8

Guess what?? Neither of these exist!


#9

I doubt that any of these gentlemen had ever heard of any of this when the poem and song wrere written . . .

“The famous Christmas song Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer started life as a poem created by an American advertising executive called Robert May. He was requested to produce a poem that could be given away to children by the Santa Claus employed by Department Stores at Christmas! Working as an Advertising Executive Robert May had a natural flair with words and was able to compose the Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer poem which was specifically designed to appeal to children. This marketing ploy was a massive success and approximately 2.5 million Rudolph, the red-nosed reindeer poems were given away in the first year of its publication! In 1949 the singer Gene Autry recorded a musical version of Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer composed by Johnny Marks.


#10

…maybe I am reading too much into it, but I thought the OP was a satirical post poking fun at anti-secularism amongst some Catholics, i.e. some Catholics freaking out because some parents continue to tell their kids that there’s a Santa Clause, etc.

I could be wrong, but that seemed the most logical conclusion…


#11

Am I missing something here? I have every intention of telling my children about Santa Claus - and I hope they believe in him, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy until they’re at least 8!
And as far as Santa goes, don’t we all know that he’s based on St. Nick? In the UK, we call him Father Christmas (although I’ve heard that here in the states, we’re supposed to say Father X-mas).
I hope my children will derive as much fun from Santa and all the others as I got when I was a child. I remember getting to 9 years old and saying to my older sister, Is there really a Father Christmas? Of course her answer was, “what do you think” - and of course, I generally went with the whole - yep, he’s real - and put out my stocking and shoe.
Sometimes people just look into things a little too deeply.
God Bless
Rye


#12

I mean really. Don't we have bigger things to worry than this? As Freud once said, "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." (Normally I despise Freud, but in this case he's right.)

Look, a lot of Christmas customs and stories have some similiarities or roots in pagan beliefs and you know what, that's okay. In fact, the early Christian missionaries encouraged this. In fact, the bishops and popes encouraged it. They blessed it. Not everything pagan is wrong and both St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas wrote on this and found kernels of truth in pagan authors such as Plato and Aristotle.

Catholicism is not monocultural. It is Truth and it is the Truth that both transcends and includes every culture in the world. That's why we have Christmas songs in a hundred different languages. Were it not so, Christianity would have remained a odd variant on Judaism and it would be the universal truth that it is.

The occult is real, the devil is real, but to assume the occult is everywhere gives it far more power than it really has. It evinces a kind of spiritual paranoia that can't be healthy. Moreover as a traditionalist, I am suspicious of radical efforts to gut our beautiful holidays traditions. Haven't the cafeteria Catholics and the secular multi-culturalists done enough harm to Christmas? Leave Santa alone and step back from the reindeer please!

jb


#13

You can't....possibly....be serious!!!

:rolleyes::cool::rolleyes:

Good grief!

Maybe snow is God's dandruff when he brushes his hair too!

You do know that real reindeer exist, right? They are actually a type of caribou that live in the Arctic.
z.about.com/d/healing/1/0/c/O/gtotem_reindeer.jpg


#14

What's REALLY funny about this post is that Wicca is only 50 years old. And NO ancient Pagan religion believed in a Horned God/Mother Goddess like the Wiccans believe it. Any Wiccan will tell you that, too, unless they believe Margaret Murray, who has been totally disproven.


#15

[quote="tabsie3210, post:10, topic:178840"]
...maybe I am reading too much into it, but I thought the OP was a satirical post poking fun at anti-secularism amongst some Catholics, i.e. some Catholics freaking out because some parents continue to tell their kids that there's a Santa Clause, etc.

I could be wrong, but that seemed the most logical conclusion...

[/quote]

Sadly, this poster is most likely serious. She comes back from time to time to tell us that tampons are evil you do not even want to know about the thermometers for taking NFP temp - she keeps one smiling, that is for sure!


#16

I wonder if OP is from Phatmass…they have a similar character over there with the very similar name of “Budge”


#17

[quote="budgie2, post:1, topic:178840"]
Santa Claus' reindeer Rudolph may be related to the Horned God of Wicca who dies on Halloween and is reborn on the Winter Solstice and is symbolised by an antlered deer. .

[/quote]

Rudolph is the product of a children's story book written in the 30s as department store give-away, and has no tradition whatever leading back to wicca or any other wacko source. since wicca is a modern reconstruction anyway as a hodgepodge of pagan myth and legend filched from many sources (many of them inaccurate in any case) it has no relation whatever with any Christian celebration of Christmas. Santa Claus is derived from a Christian saint, and the current conception of him in American culture from a children's poem and modern advertising art. sorry.

but that red nose, now, that is very sinister, let me pull out my old copy of Golden Bough and see what I can come up with to entertain the troops.


#18

In case anyone has forgotten the original lyrics:

Rudolph the red horned demon
Has some very shiny horns
And if you ever touched them
You would even say they burned

All of the other faithfuls
Used to laugh and call him names
They never let poor Rudolph
Join in any Christian games

Then one foggy Saturnalia Eve
Jesus came to say
Rudolph with your horns so bright
Won't you help me destroy the work tonight

Then all the faithers loved him
As they shouted out with glee
Rudolph the red horned demon
With you we will spend eternity


#19

[quote="budgie2, post:1, topic:178840"]
Santa Claus' reindeer Rudolph may be related to the Horned God of Wicca who dies on Halloween and is reborn on the Winter Solstice and is symbolised by an antlered deer. The Horned Gods of Wicca Herne the Hunter and Cernunnos wear the horns of the stag on their heads and then mate with the Spring Goddess in the Great Rite of Spring.

The Horned God has developed our concept of the devil (horny devil) although he is more commonly portrayed with goat horns rather than antlers but he can in fact wear both.

One of the origins of Santa Claus is Odin/Woden who was a Norse Pagan creator god called All Father and is sometimes known as Skyfather. According to Wikipedia, Odin and Thor were rejected by Catholics in their baptismal vows one thousand years ago.

[/quote]

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: My Joke of the day


#20

I think you’re overanalysing the whole thing :shrug: It’s sort of like the Jehovah Witnesses claiming Christmas trees and Easter Eggs are evil. It’s all about what it represents to you. To me the Christmas tree is nothing more then a fun holiday decoration but doesn’t mean I practice any of the ancient celtic traditions or beliefs that my have spawned it’s begingings. If Rudolph is evil then we must abolish the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus, holiday wreaths…:o:rolleyes::shrug::eek::smiley:


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