Rumors about Benedict supporting Hitler


#1

Hi i’m sorry if this thread has already been done but there has been romours that Pope Benedict our current pope used to work for Hitlar.
What can we say about these rumours?

Evanescence


#2

[quote=Evanescence]Hi i’m sorry if this thread has already been done but there has been romours that Pope Benedict our current pope used to work for Hitlar.

What can we say about these rumours?

[/quote]

After you stop laughing, say, “Wrong.”

Adolph Hitler came to power in 1933. He was out of power in May 1945. Joseph Ratzinger was born in 1927. Hitler had a six-year-old working for him? Or, by the end of the war, an 18-year-old? Nonsense.

Here’s the real story:

He was the third and youngest child of Joseph Ratzinger, Sr., a police officer, and his wife, Maria Ratzinger (nee Riger), who worked as a barmaid, and whose family were from South Tyrol (today part of Italy). His father served in both the Bavarian State Police (Landespolizei) and the German national Regular Police (Ordnungspolizei) before retiring in 1937 to the town of Traunstein. The Sunday Times of London described the elder Ratzinger as “an anti-Nazi whose attempts to rein in Hitler’s Brown Shirts forced the family to move several times.” According to the International Herald Tribune, these relocations were directly related to Joseph Ratzinger, Sr.'s continued resistance to Nazism, which resulted in demotions and transfers. The pope’s brother Georg said: “Our father was a bitter enemy of Nazism because he believed it was in conflict with our faith.”

Pope Benedict’s brother, Georg, is still living. His sister, Maria Ratzinger, who never married, managed her brother Joseph’s household until her death in 1991. Their grand uncle Georg Ratzinger was a priest and member of the Reichstag, as the German Parliament was called then. The future pope’s relatives agree that his ambitions to reside in the upper echelons of the Church were apparent since childhood. At five years old, Ratzinger was in a group of children who presented the archbishop of Munich with flowers; later that day he announced he wanted to be a cardinal. (See also Early life of Pope Benedict XVI.)

According to his cousin Erika Kopp, Ratzinger had no desire from childhood to be anything other than a priest. When he was 15, she says, he announced that he was going to be a bishop, whereupon she playfully remarked, ‘And why not Pope?’.

When Ratzinger turned 14 he was forced by law to join the Hitler Youth (membership was legally required since December 1936. According to the National Catholic Reporter correspondent and biographer John Allen, Ratzinger was an unenthusiastic member who refused to attend meetings. Ratzinger has mentioned that a Nazi mathematics professor arranged reduced tuition payments for him at seminary. This normally required documentation of attendance at Hitler Youth activities; however, according to Ratzinger, his professor arranged so that he did not need to attend to receive a scholarship.

(Continued next post…)


#3

(Continued from previous post.)

In 1943, when he was 16, Ratzinger was drafted with many of his classmates into the FlaK (anti-aircraft artillery corps). They were guarding various facilities including a BMW aircraft engine plant north of Munich and, later, the jet fighter base at Gilching, where Ratzinger served in telephone communications. After his class was released from the Corps in September 1944, Ratzinger was put to work setting up anti-tank defences in the Hungarian border area of Austria in preparation for the expected Red Army offensive. When his unit was released from service in November 1944, he went home for three weeks, and then was drafted into the German army at Munich to receive basic infantry training in the nearby town of Traunstein. His unit served at various posts around the city and was never sent to the front.

In late April or early May, days or weeks before the German surrender, Ratzinger deserted. Desertion was widespread during the last weeks of the war, even though punishable by death (executions, frequently extrajudicial, continued to the end); diminished morale and the greatly diminished risk of prosecution from a preoccupied and disorganized German military contributed to the growing wave of soldiers looking toward self-preservation. On his way home he ran into soldiers on guard, but they let him go. When the Americans arrived in the village, they arrested all who had served in the German army. Ratzinger was briefly interned in a prisoner-of-war camp near Ulm and was repatriated on June 19, 1945. The family was reunited when his brother, Georg, returned after being released from a prisoner-of-war camp in Italy.

– Mark L. Chance.


#4

He was a member of Hitler Youth, as were all German boys of the time. He was later drafted at an early age (14, I think), served for a short time on an antiaircraft battery, then deserted to enter the seminary. This has been discussed in great detail here. If you want more info, do a search of the forums.


#5

What about this website?

nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm

Evanescence


#6

[quote=Evanescence]What about this website?

nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm

[/quote]

What about it? It certainly doesn’t have anything to do with Benedict XVI.

Is the contention that some Catholics supported Hitler, therefore the Catholic Church is Nazi? If so, it is sensible to note the overwhelming lack of logic evidenced by such a contention.

Is the contention that Hitler was a Catholic? If so, one is hard-pressed to say he was anything approaching faithful to Catholicism. Hitler’s god was Hitler. The Hitler Youth even prayed a Nazi version of the Lord’s Prayer to Hitler.

It is impossible for someone to be a Nazi and a faithful Catholic. The Catholic Church had made this abudantly clear well before Hitler came to power.

– Mark L. Chance.


#7

Lest we Forget.

The resistance to Hitler contained many Catholics from its beginning back in 1933. The July 20th Bomb plot of 1944 involved nearly wholly Catholics.


#8

I just read a few things about Pius XII-The Vatican issued false baptismal certificates to Jews, as well as hid them in convents all over the place. Here it is, the Catholic Church SAVED about 700,000 Jews.


#9

Hitler…despite the outward manifestations, and the fact that he was a Catholic was anything but following the church. (Ask St. Maximillain Kolbe and Edith Stein). The fact is that we were on his list right behind the Jews. The allegations against Pope Benedict XVII are just like the meaning of your username…“Evanescence”. :slight_smile:


#10

The official Jewish position is really more important than anti-Catholic websites that portray our Pope as a Nazi:

Ratzinger, the Jews and Israel

Ratzinger’s membership in the Hitler Youth has raised eyebrows in the Jewish community, but he explained that membership was compulsory in his 1997 book Salt of the Earth:

“At first we weren’t,” he says, speaking of himself and his older brother. “But when the compulsory Hitler Youth was introduced in 1941, my brother was obliged to join. I was still too young, but later as a seminarian I was registered in the Hitler Youth. As soon as I was out of the seminary, I never went back. And that was difficult because the tuition reduction, which I really needed, was tied to proof of attendance at the Hitler Youth.”

Ratzinger wrote that he was helped by a mathematics professor. “He himself was a Nazi, but an honest man, and said to me, ‘Just go once to get the document so we have it…’ When he saw that I simply didn’t want to, he said, ‘I understand, I’ll take care of it’ and so I was able to stay free of it.”

Rabbi David Rosen, the international director of interreligious affairs for the American Jewish Committee, said the choice of Ratzinger as Pope would bring continuity to Catholic-Jewish relations. “He has a deep commitment to this issue. And his own national background makes him sensitive to the dangers of anti-Semitism and the importance of Jewish-Catholic reconciliation,” Rosen said

Rabbi Israel Singer, chairman of the World Jewish Congress, called Ratzinger the architect of the “ideological policy to recognize, to have full relations with Israel.”

Cardinal Ratzinger played a key role on a number of issues related to Judaism and the Holocaust during the pontificate of John Paul II involved. For example, he personally prepared Memory and Reconciliation, the 1999 document outlining the church’s historical “errors” in its treatment of Jews.

Ratzinger also authorized the 2002 publication, “The Jewish People and the Holy Scriptures,” prepared by the Pontifical Biblical Commission. That 210-page report was seemingly buried upon publication, but contained several important expressions of Church doctrine. For example, it said “the Jewish messianic wait is not in vain” and that Jews and Christians share their wait for the Messiah, although Jews are waiting for the first coming and Christians for the second. The report also expressed regret that certain passages in the Christian Bible condemning individual Jews were used to justify anti-Semitism. It also stressed the importance of the Torah for Christians.


#11

(cont’d)

“He has shown this sensitivity countless times, in meetings with Jewish leadership and in important statements condemning anti-Semitism and expressing profound sorrow for the Holocaust,” said Abraham H. Foxman, Anti-Defamation League National Director. “We remember with great appreciation his Christmas reflections on December 29, 2000, when he memorably expressed remorse for the anti-Jewish attitudes that persisted through history, leading to ‘deplorable acts of violence’ and the Holocaust.

In that Christmas “meditation,” which appeared on the front page of the Vatican newspaper L’Osservatore Romano, Ratzinger said:

Even if the most recent, loathsome experience of the Shoah (Holocaust) was perpetrated in the name of an anti-Christian ideology, which tried to strike the Christian faith at its Abrahamic roots in the people of Israel, it cannot be denied that a certain insufficient resistance to this atrocity on the part of Christians can be explained by an inherited anti-Judaism present in the hearts of not a few Christians.

According to the Religious News Service, “Ratzinger’s warm tone and repeated emphasis on Christianity’s roots in Judaism appeared aimed at easing severe strains caused by the controversial document on salvation that his congregation issued in September 2000. The ‘Declaration Dominus Iesus’ asserted the primacy of Catholicism and said followers of other religions are in a ‘gravely deficient situation’ regarding salvation.”

“The entire story of salvation,” Ratzinger said in his meditation, “had Israel as its initial protagonist. For this reason, the voices of Moses and the prophets have resonated in the liturgy of the church from the beginning until today; Israel’s Book of Psalms is also the church’s great book of prayer.”

Ratzinger has also written about dialogue with Jews:

The average observer would probably regard the following statement as obvious: the Hebrew Bible, the “Old Testament,” unites Jews and Christians, whereas faith in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and Redeemer divides them. It is not difficult to see, however, that this kind of division between what unites and what divides is superficial. For the primal fact is that through Christ Israel’s Bible came to the non-Jews and became their Bible…For through the encounter with Jesus of Nazareth the God of Israel became the God of the Gentiles. Through him, in fact, the promise that the nations would pray to the God of Israel as the one God, that the “mountain of the Lord” would be exalted above all other mountains, has been fulfilled. Even if Israel cannot join Christians in seeing Jesus as the Son of God, it is not altogether impossible for Israel to recognize him as the servant of God who brings the light of his God to the nations. The converse is also true: even if Christians wish that Israel might one day recognize Christ as the Son of God and that the fissure that still divides them might thereby be closed, they ought to acknowledge the decree of God, who has obviously entrusted Israel with a distinctive mission in the “time of the Gentiles.”

…I think we could say that two things are essential to Israel’s faith. The first is the Torah, commitment to God’s will, and thus the establishment of his dominion, his kingdom, in this world. The second is the prospect of hope, the expectation of the Messiah — the expectation, indeed, the certainty, that God himself will enter into this history and create justice, which we can only approximate very imperfectly… For Christians, Christ is the present Sinai, the living Torah that lays its obligations on us, that bindingly commands us, but that in so doing draws us into the broad space of love and its inexhaustible possibilities. In this way, Christ guarantees hope in the God who does not let history sink into a meaningless past, but rather sustains it and brings it to its goal. It likewise follows from this that the figure of Christ simultaneously unites and divides Israel and the Church: it is not in our power to overcome this division, but it keeps us together on the way to what is coming and for this reason must not become an enmity.

He also made remarks, however, that raised some concerns among Jews. In 2001, for example, Ratzinger said the Church is waiting for the moment when Jews will “say yes to Christ.” When asked if Jews should acknowledge Jesus as the Messiah, Ratzinger said, “We believe that. The fact remains, however, that our Christian conviction is that Christ is also the Messiah of Israel.”

Source: jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Ratzinger.html


#12

[quote=Evanescence]What about this website?

nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm

Evanescence
[/quote]

Look up stillsmallvoice,he is a Jew and posted a thread on this and the thread was quite supportive of our Pope;) :slight_smile:


#13

[quote=Evanescence]Hi i’m sorry if this thread has already been done but there has been romours that Pope Benedict our current pope used to work for Hitlar.
What can we say about these rumours?

Evanescence
[/quote]

I'm waiting for John Cornwell to write a biography of John Paul II titled "The Abortionists' Pope."

We can say that the rumors about Benedict are utterly false and scurrilous. And (as other responders on this thread have shown) we can back our statements up.

  • Liberian

#14

I know this is a bit off topic to my original post but I’ve noticed that the catholic church has been accused for alot of things,

emperors-clothes.com/vatican/cpix.htm

newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/4/5/01552.shtm l

fairness.com/resources/by-metacat?metacat_id=310

I’m talking to an ex-jw at the moment and he shows me a lot of websites about the catholic church and why he is against it.
IS there anything I could say to defend the church? Those three sites I listed are the ones he gave me

Evanescence


#15

[quote=Evanescence]emperors-clothes.com/vatican/cpix.htm

[/quote]

Start with the first link listed. It makes three thesis claims:

  • a) The Catholic Church hierarchy - especially Eugenio Pacelli, before and after he became Pope Pius XII - aided the Nazis.

This is untrue. Pacelli never aided the Nazis. He had nothing to do with Hitler rising to power in Germany. Here’s a review of John Cornwell’s much cited and deeply flawed book, Hitler’s Pope. Also note that Cornwell himself has recanted his book.

  • b) The Catholic Church was active in Nazi movements outside Germany especially in the Baltic region and in the Balkans, where it helped run the Nazi puppet State of Croatia. After the war, the Vatican sheltered Nazi war criminals;

There is little truth to any of this. Some Catholics - in direct violation of clear Church teaching - aided the Nazi regime. The Vatican did not help Nazis escape Europe. There was one Bishop Hudal who abused his authority in this manner, but he did so without the cooperation of the Vatican.

  • c) As for Nazism being a “Godless ideology,” . . . the fact is the Nazis used Christian symbolism, worked closely with Christian churches and based their attacks on Jews in part on Christian texts, with which Europeans were familiar. The use of these texts was not attacked by the Vatican.

Let’s break these facts down one-by-one:

  1. Nazis used Christian symbolism: So? They also used pagan symbolism. Satanists sometimes use Christian symbolism (most notably the inverted cross, the symbol of Saint Peter). Does this mean that the Catholic Church is in cahoots with Satanists?

  2. Nazis worked closely with Christian churches: This is an interesting spin. In fact, Nazis took over Christian churches. Dissenters were persecuted, imprisoned, and often executed. This was SOP for fascists governments.

Although less programmatically hostile to Christianity as such than was the Soviet Union, and far less hostile to Christianity than to Judaism, which the Nazis sought to exterminate in the Holocaust throughout the Third Reich and lands that came under Nazi rule, Nazi totalitarianism demanded that all religious activity conform to the desires of Nazi leadership. Although an attempt by Alfred Rosenberg to restore an “Aryan” paganism came to no fruition except in some inner cicrcles of the party and the SS, Christian churches were obliged to accept the racist doctrines of Nazism. The Gestapo monitored Christian clergy and congregations for any semblance of dissent with Nazi policies, and many Christian clergy and laymen ended up in concentration camps when they asserted opposition to the teachings and practices of Nazism or if they acted upon pacifist convictions (like many Jehovah’s Witnesses and some Confessing Church members). During the early part of the Nazi rule, the “German Christians” were an important pseudo-protestant tool of the regime to bring about the Gleichschaltung of the churches. The Nazi Party used a right-facing swastika as their symbol and the red and black colors were said to represent Blut und Boden (blood and soil).

The expansion of Nazi Germany and the establishment of Nazi rule in occupied countries brought about persecutions ranging from those characteristic in Germany itself to conditions approaching those of the Soviet Union. Catholic priests in Poland preceded even Jews to the concentration camps; many were murdered in the liquidation of the Polish intelligentsia. Nazi Germany, or the Third Reich, commonly refers to Germany in the years 1933–1945, when it was under the firm control of the totalitarian and fascist ideology of the Nazi Party, with the Führer Adolf Hitler as dictator.

(Continued next post.)


#16

(Continued from previous post).

Quoted from emperors-clothes.com/vatican/cpix.htm

  • c) As for Nazism being a “Godless ideology,” . . . the fact is the Nazis used Christian symbolism, worked closely with Christian churches and based their attacks on Jews in part on Christian texts, with which Europeans were familiar. The use of these texts was not attacked by the Vatican.
  1. Nazis used Christian texts to help justify their attacks against Jews: Again, so? This falls under the same objections listed in the previous post about Christian symbols being abused by Nazis.

  2. The use of these texts was not attacked by the Vatican: Popes Pius XI and Pius XII attacked fascism and Nazism so many times that only the willfully ignorant can believe otherwise. Here is a good site that addresses many of these issues.

You can also exercise your google-fu for the names Bishop Clemens Count von Galen of Munster; Archbishop von Preysing of Berlin; Cardinal Bertram of Breslau; Cardinal Schulte of Cologne; and Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber of Munich.

– Mark L. Chance.


#17

[quote=Evanescence][newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/4/5/01552.shtm l](“http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/4/5/01552.shtm l”)

fairness.com/resources/by-metacat?metacat_id=310

[/quote]

I think these words sum up our best response: “The heartfelt sorrow that we feel for this violation and the often ineffective ways with which it was dealt has strengthened our commitment to do everything possible to see that it does not happen again,” said Bishop Wilton Gregory, president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.

– Mark L. Chance.


#18

[quote=Evanescence]I know this is a bit off topic to my original post but I’ve noticed that the catholic church has been accused for alot of things,

emperors-clothes.com/vatican/cpix.htm

newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/4/5/01552.shtm l

fairness.com/resources/by-metacat?metacat_id=310

I’m talking to an ex-jw at the moment and he shows me a lot of websites about the catholic church and why he is against it.
IS there anything I could say to defend the church? Those three sites I listed are the ones he gave me

Evanescence
[/quote]

Evanescence,

There is a lot you can say to defend the Church. Most of it has been said more eloquently than anything I could put together. I would suggest that your JW friend read the encyclical “Mit Brennender Sorge,” signed by Pius XI but effectively written by Eugenio Pacelli. It is the only encyclical originally written in German; this was done so that the German churches could hear it right away before the Nazis had a chance to ban it. And ban it the Nazis did; they also confiscated the printing presses that had published it, and generally tightened their persecution of the Church.

There are also the minor matters of Pius XII hiding Jews in his own apartments and in his summer residence; allowing convents to relax the rules of the cloister so they could hide Jews; and a lot more things that slip my mind at the moment. When he died, prominent Jews from Golda Meir to Albert Einstein poured out plaudits to him over how much he had done to save Jews from the Nazis.

  • Liberian

#19

[

newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/4/5/01552.shtm [By year’s end, some 1,200 priests had been accused of abuse nationwide, the New York Times reported, in an investigative report of its own. In the ensuing maelstrom, five U.S. prelates resigned. Also, bishops from Argentina, Germany, Ireland, Poland, Wales, Scotland, Canada, Switzerland and Austria were also forced out of the church. More than 80 percent of the church’s victims were male.

Worse for the church, Americans discovered some of the most abusive priests were protected by upper echelons of the clergy. Repeated abusive offenses by men like Revs. James Porter and John Geoghan were covered up by the church or, when they occasionally were made public, dismissed as rarities or infrequent behavior.

These priests were moved around from diocese to diocese, given positions that limited their contact with children, or moved to administrative duties – but they usually found their way back into a parish, holding Mass and coming in contact with more potential victims. In the end, the Vatican’s credibility, the church itself, and the entire Catholic faith, was damaged to the point where it will take decades to repair; the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, in a report on the nature and scope of the abuse problems, found almost 11,000 cases of abuse by about 4,000 priests and deacons since 1950.

your church should maybe step up the dissfellowshipping rate somewhat you think? and not to mention Hitler again but his *** should of been disfellowedshipped to.

](“http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/4/5/01552.shtml”)%between%****Continued next post…](“http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/4/5/01552.shtml”)


#20

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There have been many dozens of reversals of church belief in the past: 5%between%

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