sacred in Mormonism


#1

Today I was listening to an LDS man being asked about the garments. They are sacred, he said, and they are not to be discussed because of their sacredness.
So, after some time it occurred to me, "what is more sacred than God Himself"? Well, nothing. Yet, He can be discussed, and in fact, should be, to bring souls to the fullness of Truth.
How does the LDS church come to the idea that the sanctity of a thing makes it off-limits to the rest of us, when Sacredness Himself is to be shouted from the rooftops, so to speak?

Thx!


#2

[quote="exiled, post:1, topic:296482"]
Today I was listening to an LDS man being asked about the garments. They are sacred, he said, and they are not to be discussed because of their sacredness.
So, after some time it occurred to me, "what is more sacred than God Himself"? Well, nothing. Yet, He can be discussed, and in fact, should be, to bring souls to the fullness of Truth.
How does the LDS church come to the idea that the sanctity of a thing makes it off-limits to the rest of us, when Sacredness Himself is to be shouted from the rooftops, so to speak?

Thx!

[/quote]

Maybe he meant that they aren't to be discussed because they are sacred and talking about them might lead to ridicule. Just a guess, though.


#3

Yes, it sounds like a very reasonable point to me. When we treat things that are sacred as common, such as by idly discussing them, it can diminish their sacredness. It's no different from caring for ritual implements, texts and so on in any faith. In a number of monotheistic traditions, it is not proper to use any word for God. An example for me is that Dharma texts should not be placed on the floor or in any low place. I remember asking someone at a Borders bookstore once to move a stack of a spiritual teacher's books off the floor, and being made to feel very foolish. :( The bottom-line I think is that we should respect the sacredness of other traditions whether the manner agrees with the way we do things or not. :)


#4

They aren't allowed to talk about much of their religion. A friend of mine who's family is Mormon has told me much about their practices, and they are odd. They view these things as not for Gentile's eyes(They view themselves as Jews). It's a very secretive religion.


#5

[quote="Lodro, post:3, topic:296482"]
Yes, it sounds like a very reasonable point to me. When we treat things that are sacred as common, such as by idly discussing them, it can diminish their sacredness. It's no different from caring for ritual implements, texts and so on in any faith. In a number of monotheistic traditions, it is not proper to use any word for God. An example for me is that Dharma texts should not be placed on the floor or in any low place. I remember asking someone at a Borders bookstore once to move a stack of a spiritual teacher's books off the floor, and being made to feel very foolish. :( The bottom-line I think is that we should respect the sacredness of other traditions whether the manner agrees with the way we do things or not. :)

[/quote]

I'm not a critic of LDS garments, although LDS is not my faith. As Catholics, we wear scapulars, usually under our clothing, as a reminder of our faith,etc. I have no beef with the wearing of the garments. But, as I said, God's Name and God's Word, for instance, are so sacred that they are addressed in the Commandments themselves; we are told not to use His Name in vain, but not that we shouldn't use it at all. If God's name isn't too sacred to be...unmentionable, then I don't see how anything else on earth could possibly be that.
I think it is appropriate that the Scriptures should not be placed on the floor next to the potty with Field and Stream. Your point that idle discussion might seem to make things common is interesting; but I think misuse, such as wearing a Rosary as a necklace, is more likely to diminish sacredness to the eyes of the world at large.


#6

[quote="Traditionalism, post:4, topic:296482"]
They aren't allowed to talk about much of their religion. A friend of mine who's family is Mormon has told me much about their practices, and they are odd. They view these things as not for Gentile's eyes(They view themselves as Jews). It's a very secretive religion.

[/quote]

You have a couple of things wrong here....

The only thing that they are not allowed to discuss outside of the temple is the temple ceremony.

And no they dont see themselves as Jews. They do however, see anyone who is not a Mormon as a gentile.....

To say it's a very secretive religion is not accurate


#7

[quote="Marie5890, post:6, topic:296482"]
You have a couple of things wrong here....

The only thing that they are not allowed to discuss outside of the temple is the temple ceremony.

And no they dont see themselves as Jews. They do however, see anyone who is not a Mormon as a gentile.....

To say it's a very secretive religion is not accurate

[/quote]

As far as I know, and from what I've gotten from talking to them, they aren't allowed to talk about much. They can't tell you about their garments(I asked this many times, especially about the underwear they wear, never got an answer expect from people who are no longer Mormons) from what I've seen. From what I've been told, and read, they view themselves as Jews, if they don't, then may I ask how they view non-Mormons as Gentiles if they are Gentiles themselves? It's a fairly secretive group, and they've never given me a clear answer, but I've gotten them from people who've left the Mormon belief system. The ideas about spirit children is one that NO MORMON I know would tell me about, yet it seems they do believe that they will have them and achieve godhood status once they enter the Kingdom of Heaven.


#8

[quote="Traditionalism, post:7, topic:296482"]
As far as I know, and from what I've gotten from talking to them, they aren't allowed to talk about much. They can't tell you about their garments(I asked this many times, especially about the underwear they wear, never got an answer expect from people who are no longer Mormons) from what I've seen. From what I've been told, and read, they view themselves as Jews, if they don't, then may I ask how they view non-Mormons as Gentiles if they are Gentiles themselves? It's a fairly secretive group, and they've never given me a clear answer, but I've gotten them from people who've left the Mormon belief system. The ideas about spirit children is one that NO MORMON I know would tell me about, yet it seems they do believe that they will have them and achieve godhood status once they enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

[/quote]

Marie is a former mormon. So is RebeccaJ, TexanKnight, and several others. Trust them, they won't steer you wrong.

As far as them not talking about their garments (which is their underwear), they receive them in the temple, and that is why they won't discuss them.

You will get very little information about what goes in in a temple, other than simple things like: That is where they get their endowments, sealings, baptisms for the dead. You won't get any real details of what actually goes on from an active mormon.


#9

[quote="Traditionalism, post:7, topic:296482"]
As far as I know, and from what I've gotten from talking to them, they aren't allowed to talk about much. They can't tell you about their garments(I asked this many times, especially about the underwear they wear, never got an answer expect from people who are no longer Mormons) from what I've seen. From what I've been told, and read, they view themselves as Jews, if they don't, then may I ask how they view non-Mormons as Gentiles if they are Gentiles themselves? It's a fairly secretive group, and they've never given me a clear answer, but I've gotten them from people who've left the Mormon belief system. The ideas about spirit children is one that NO MORMON I know would tell me about, yet it seems they do believe that they will have them and achieve godhood status once they enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

[/quote]

Most LDS do not talk about their underwear because, face it, most folks do not go around talking about their underwear. When I was LDS and wore the garments, I never talked about them unless asked specifically. I would tell those who asked they were special garments that I wore to remind me of my calling and my vows. The only thing we were NOT allowed to talk about was what went on inside the temple.


#10

[quote="TexanKnight, post:9, topic:296482"]
Most LDS do not talk about their underwear because, face it, most folks do not go around talking about their underwear. When I was LDS and wore the garments, I never talked about them unless asked specifically. I would tell those who asked they were special garments that I wore to remind me of my calling and my vows. The only thing we were NOT allowed to talk about was what went on inside the temple.

[/quote]

I've just asked garments overall, and they never answer me. They tell me it's off limits to Gentiles. They also say the spirit children are a myth, but their works seem to not match with that.


#11

[quote="Traditionalism, post:10, topic:296482"]
I've just asked garments overall, and they never answer me. They tell me it's off limits to Gentiles. They also say the spirit children are a myth, but their works seem to not match with that.

[/quote]

Then they are odd Mormons. I have NEVER heard an LDS sanswer that way, nor were we taught or told to answer that way


#12

[quote="TexanKnight, post:11, topic:296482"]
Then they are odd Mormons. I have NEVER heard an LDS sanswer that way, nor were we taught or told to answer that way

[/quote]

They didn't answer my questions at all, and this is where I draw that it's secretive. They won't answer anything straight, as I'm a Gentile.


#13

[quote="Traditionalism, post:12, topic:296482"]
They didn't answer my questions at all, and this is where I draw that it's secretive. They won't answer anything straight, as I'm a Gentile.

[/quote]

I get that. I am just saying that the LDS Church does not teach or tell them to do that. That is just those particular Mormons.


#14

[quote="Traditionalism, post:12, topic:296482"]
They didn't answer my questions at all, and this is where I draw that it's secretive. They won't answer anything straight, as I'm a Gentile.

[/quote]

You may be experiencing what is referred to as the "milk before meat" method of catechism, for lack of a better way to explain it. In essence, non-members are taught the "milk" of the gospel before conversion, and taught the heavier and more complicated doctrines once baptized. The 16-oz Porterhouse Steak of the religion is the Temple ceremonies. I went to six weeks of Temple Prep classes, and nothing I learned in those classes related to the actual experience of going through the endowment ceremony.

Try not to take it too personally, and pray to God that all will know His truth.


#15

Mormons wear garments, Catholics wear scapulars.

Many times here and on other sites I have read posters who ridicule Mormons for their garments. Would we like to be ridiculed for scapulars?


#16

As others have stated, the Latter-day Saints that you are talking to are not representative, nor are they being told by "the Church" to say what they are saying. As a Latter-day Saint, I am comfortable saying that I wear garments to those that ask about it, and that they remind me of the covenants I have entered into with God. I don't discuss specifics about them, beyond saying that they are white, consist of a shirt and bottom, and have symbols on them that remind me of various things related to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

As far as specifics about what goes on in temples, there is a great deal that we often freely talk about about what goes on in temples of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Much of this can be found in various Church related publications. For example, I am comfortable saying that in a temple marriage, the couple kneels at an altar facing each other and are married "for time and all eternity". In baptism for the dead, we stand in the baptismal font, and are baptized "for and in behalf of" deceased persons to offer the blessings of baptism to them (to accept or reject). In the Endowment, we are instructed on various aspects of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, beginning with the Creation, the Fall. In most temples, this includes the use of video. We enter into various covenants, put on ceremonial clothing, and at the conclusion, we pass through a veil in to the Celestial Room, entering into the presence of God. There is a prayer circle where we stand around an altar in ceremonial clothing and pray for the sick. The Encyclopedia of Mormonism entry on "Endowment" goes into this a little further. In the Endowment, we also covenant not to reveal specific things that we are taught, and those things are what we should not talk about, except within the temple walls. Some Latter-day Saints extrapolate this into meaning we really can't talk about anything that happens in the temple, beyond saying we do eternal marriages, endowment, washing and anointing, etc. That is there own personal view, however not all Latter-day Saints will limit themselves to that, and they are not wrong for doing so.

Hope that helps.


#17

[quote="twopekinguys, post:8, topic:296482"]
Marie is a former Mormon. So is RebeccaJ, TexanKnight, and several others. Trust them, they won't steer you wrong.

[/quote]

I'm sorry, but this is too much. Ex-Mormons, some disgruntled, do not provide the most unbiased view. I hope even people from other religions can see this. I'm not saying Marie's, Rebecca's, or TexanKnight's views are always invalid but they definitly have a negative bent. The views they express often give some information while hiding other parts. They come at it as deeply unbelieving and so will feed you information in a certain way and of a certain type.

They may say the reverse about me but you must hear both sides. Particularly on issues that are so close to the heart. If you want to know about Catholicism at least talk to a practicing Catholic, if you want to know about Mormonism at least spend some time talking to an active Mormon. It's just common sense.


#18

[quote="Janderich, post:17, topic:296482"]
I'm sorry, but this is too much. Ex-Mormons, some disgruntled, do not provide the most unbiased view. I hope even people from other religions can see this. I'm not saying Marie's, Rebecca's, or TexanKnight's views are always invalid but they definitly have a negative bent. The views they express often give some information while hiding other parts. They come at it as deeply unbelieving and so will feed you information in a certain way and of a certain type.

They may say the reverse about me but you must hear both sides. Particularly on issues that are so close to the heart. If you want to know about Catholicism at least talk to a practicing Catholic, if you want to know about Mormonism at least spend some time talking to an active Mormon. It's just common sense.

[/quote]

That is simply dishonest. I have no begative bent. Nor have I seen others with that negative bent. You simply hate that we keep telling the truth, so you try to discredit us by calling us disgruntled. I am not even close to disgruntled. I defended garments yesterday. I have defended the lifestyle of Mormns and how close they are and how like a family they are. I have stated how much I enjoy General Conference, despite the fact everyone sounds the same.

However, I will NOT allow the whitewashing of the LDS history or doctrine. That is not called disgruntled, that is called honest.


#19

[quote="Janderich, post:17, topic:296482"]
I'm sorry, but this is too much. Ex-Mormons, some disgruntled, do not provide the most unbiased view. I hope even people from other religions can see this. I'm not saying Marie's, Rebecca's, or TexanKnight's views are always invalid but they definitly have a negative bent. The views they express often give some information while hiding other parts. They come at it as deeply unbelieving and so will feed you information in a certain way and of a certain type.

They may say the reverse about me but you must hear both sides. Particularly on issues that are so close to the heart. If you want to know about Catholicism at least talk to a practicing Catholic, if you want to know about Mormonism at least spend some time talking to an active Mormon. It's just common sense.

[/quote]

I can only speak for myself. I feel I am pretty just pointing out error on both sides when it comes to Mormonism.

When other speak of Mormonism in error, Im just as comfortable as pointing that out.

Like when it was said that Mormon see themselves as Jews. They dont. That is simply error.

Nor is it accurate to say that they are a highly secretive group, they arent. They certainly dont speak about the temple and all associated with it, but I wouldnt say that qualifies Mormons as highly secretive.

Again I can only speak for myself. I dont qualify as a disgrunted former Mormon. Not by a long shot. When I left, I left with fond memories etc. Some of the qualities that made me a good Mormon make me a good Catholic (love of scripture, daily living a life a disciple, etc)


#20

[quote="TexanKnight, post:18, topic:296482"]

However, I will NOT allow the whitewashing of the LDS histoey or doctrine. That is not called disgruntled, that is called honest.

[/quote]

Exactly.


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