Saint Justin Martyr the Catholic, Lutheran Saint


#1

I don’t understand why Saint Justin is recognized as a saint by the Lutheran Church…especially since he taught transubstantiation in his Apologies. Does anyone know why the Lutheran Church accepts Saint Justin as a saint?


#2

Lutherans know what Justin taught.

From the Lutheran Confessions:37] Even as many eminent ancient teachers, Justin, Cyprian, Augustine, Leo, Gelasius, Chrysostom and others, use this simile concerning the words of Christ’s testament: This is My body, that just as in Christ two distinct, unchanged natures are inseparably united, so in the Holy Supper the two substances, the natural bread and the true natural body of Christ, are present together here upon earth in the appointed administration of the Sacrament.
Lutherans generally follow the convention of honoring such individuals as “Saints” that have been popularly recognized as such by historical Christians.


#3

Hi Angainor,

You realize, of course, that the Lutherans believe in consubstantiation (the substances of bread and Christs subsist together) and not in transubstantiation (the substance of bread is replaced by the substance of Christ).

This is of of course immaterial, since they do not have apostolic succession.

Verbum


#4

Salut Verbum,

No. That is a rather more sophisticated theological structure than what Lutherans state is their belief.“Of the Supper of the Lord they teach that the Body and Blood of Christ are truly present, and are distributed to those who eat the Supper of the Lord; and they reject those that teach otherwise.”

This is of of course immaterial…

Pun intended?
:slight_smile:


#5

Historically, Lutherans, at least here in America, kept the usage of “St. ____” at least for apostles and evangelists and some other key biblical figures.

If you look at the liturgical calendar, say, in the Lutheran Book of Worship that the ELCA uses (although it’s just been replaced with a new one) you’ll find that they dropped the title “St.” from most of these and even included some Catholic figures (Francis of Assisi) and other non-Lutherans (Martin Luther King).

Lutheranism tends to stress the “broader” definition of the word saint which includes all the baptized, rather than the specialized usage the we have in Catholicism which refers to those who have been canonized by the Catholic Church’s canonization process.


#6

Interesting… thanks.
I just really don’t think they would think Justin in heaven because he preached transubstantiation(in his Apologies) strongly.


#7

I was confused when I saw that St. Teresa of Avila is on the Lutheran Calendar of Saints, especially because of what she says about them. Can any Lutheran answer this?

Thanks.


#8

Hi Angainor
You realize, of course, that the Lutherans believe in consubstantiation (the substances of bread and Christs subsist together)
No. That is a rather more sophisticated theological structure than what Lutherans state is their belief.

Actually they state consubstantiation in your quote:

so in the Holy Supper the two substances, the natural bread and the true natural body of Christ, are present together here upon earth

This is of course immaterial.
Pun intended?

I’m not that sophisticated!

Verbum


#9

Where did that quote come from? Are you paraphrasing?

If so you are injecting weighty philosophical concepts into the mix. “Substances”, “natural”, “present together”. We would rather keep it as a simple, basic statement.

I wouldn’t personally argue with “here upon earth”, except perhaps when Buzz Aldrin celebrated on the moon! :wink:


#10

:shrug:

I’m pretty mystified as well. This is something peculiar to the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA).


#11

What Lutheran synod are you?


#12

Missouri (LCMS)


#13

I shouldn’t expect you to know to much about since you don’t belong to that Lutheran Church.:slight_smile:

Thank you.


#14

:ouch:


#15

I hope I didn’t offend you. I am sorry if I did.


#16

No worries. I was feigning injury. Smilies are supposed to help convey emotion, I haven’t got the hang of them. I should have used a :slight_smile: or :wink: with the :ouch:.


#17

:rotfl:


#18

Hi Angainor,

You ask where my quote came from. It came from your own post!

Happy Easter!

Verbum


#19

Happy Easter to you, too!

:doh2:

So, I take it you dispute it? Even as many eminent ancient teachers, Justin, Cyprian, Augustine, Leo, Gelasius, Chrysostom and others, use this simile concerning the words of Christ’s testament: This is My body, that just as in Christ two distinct, unchanged natures are inseparably united, so in the Holy Supper the two substances, the natural bread and the true natural body of Christ, are present together here upon earth in the appointed administration of the Sacrament.


#20

Hi Angainor,

I’m just saying that the Lutheran position is not transubstantiation. Transubstantiation means that there is no longer bread, but the body of Christ: one substance. The Lutheran position is that the bread and Christ exist side by side : two substances.

Happy Easter!

Verbum


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.