Any petitionary prayer we make to a saint is already known to God who will already know if He will grant our prayer. For praying to a saint to make sense it must be the case that sometimes God would deny our petitionary prayer but for the intercession of a saint. My question: Can it be the case that God would have denied a petitionary prayer but granted it because of the intercession of a saint?
read the Old Testament. Jonah is a great place to start .
I don’t see the word “saint” appear in the entire book of Jonah. Can you be more specific?
One reason is that the saint knows better than you how to present your prayers to God so they become more efficacious, also the saint will personally intercede on your behalf. And the patron saint serves also to specifically remind you of how God worked through his life and models how God will work through your life.
As far as God denying answering your prayer or the way you expect the prayer to be answered that is a much more complex subject.
Consider what James said about the prayer of a righteous man:
The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects. Elijah was a man of like nature with ourselves and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth. Then he prayed again and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth its fruit. (James 5:16b-18)
Now, I suspect many people prayed to God for an end to the three-and-a-half-year drought. However, it did not end until righteous Elijah prayed.
Also consider the words of God concerning the prayer of righteous Job:
After the Lord had spoken these words to Job, the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite: “My wrath is kindled against you and against your two friends; for you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has. Now therefore take seven bulls and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you, for I will accept his prayer not to deal with you according to your folly; for you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has.” So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went and did what the Lord had told them; and the Lord accepted Job’s prayer. (Job 42:7-9)
The implication seems to be that the Lord would not have accepted the prayer of Eliphaz, Bildad and Zophar had not righteous Job prayed for them.
So, it seems God’s answers to prayers are sometimes conditioned on who makes them.
You don’t believe in the mercy of God? That he can’t be moved with compassion?
THat what is going to happen is just going to happen?
Catholics don’t believe that. We believe that there is always hope. That God always hears and responds if what we seek is good for us.
Is your answer to the question yes or no?
What does this cliché have to do with answering my question?
Sure. It can also be the case that He would have granted it.
Unless you have personal conversations with God like the Old Testament patriarchs and prophets, you won’t know for sure, and having relationships with the saints provides other benefits to us besides just adding some extra punch to our prayers, so we should continue asking the saints to intercede for us.
3…! 2 statements conditioning 1 question.
Binary Yes/No answer does not apply - the 2 statements Conditioning contain errors…
[I don’t get forced into giving false answers suiting your pretensions conditioning impositions, you’d have to demonstrate first that you actually understand the question and have faculty to understand an answer. - Who do you think you are dealing with?]
Yes. The thing to keep in mind though is God is not in time. So from a human perspective at that exact same moment when God “made His decision” to grant our prayer He already knew whether or not we prayed to the Saint.
Not necessarily. All we know is that God wills us to Love God and Love neighbor. We can understand that loving neighbor includes praying for one another. We know that we are all members of the body of Christ (living or deceased). Therefore we can understand that living or dead God wants us to pray for one another. So we know that it is God’s will that once we die God wants us to keep praying.
Now in order for your statement to be true we would also have to know that God’s will is to deny prayers that don’t include the saints. We don’t know if this is true.
I would probably say No. My reason being because from God’s perspective at the very moment(our perspective) He decided to grant our prayer He already knew whether we prayed to a saint. So what I am getting at is His will whether or not to grant the prayer based on our prayer including or not including the saints was set at the exact same instant(our perspective). Therefore, from His perspective there really wasn’t a “WHAT IF”.
Hope this helps,
Prayer is made stronger if more people are praying, and it depends on their righteousness.
I also notice personally that prayer usually is answered when for someone else. Even saints with the gift of healing may have to deal without their own self being healed. Sort of an act of love, of faith.
Hey @Todd_Easton please remember saint James refers Elias and Job in the same context. And, please, let’s not forget that being in Job’s shoes is nothing but easy. So let’s not frivolously say prayer moves mountains neglecting about the cross.
Because the guys having it easy speak lots about moving mountains…The guys being crushed by mountains wonder…
[And please don’t talk about “the righteous” seeing their “prayers answered” light heartily. Being “righteous” in no way delivers you from a cross only to see the “wicked” doing alright. Some beatitudes are not temporally evident.]
Job wanted to die.
Again the whole OP question is misleading, because we have freedom and are being tested and can increase our merits depending. Simply remitting to predestination is captious. It also takes away glory given to God through our suffering. God looks kindly at his servants suffering - in a dynamic of love (and hardship) that is very real to the person living it.
Well then read it again. The prophet says:“I want to die.” Do you need anything more specific?
I don’t see you asking:“How am I going to survive this?” Nor:“What is the sense to this overwhelming suffering?”
Yes, God answers prayers when we request through the particular Saints eg St Anthony of Padua ,because you and i are sinners ,but because the saints have lived holy lives and do the will of God and did what was pleasing to Him,he grants it quickly as in Luke 2 at the wedding of Cana Mother Mary prayed.God Bless
Here is a good example in the book of Tobit
Tobit 12:12-14So now when you and Sarah prayed, it was I who brought and read[a] the record of your prayer before the glory of the Lord, and likewise whenever you would bury the dead. 13 And that time when you did not hesitate to get up and leave your dinner to go and bury the dead, 14 I was sent to you to test you. And at the same time God sent me to heal you and Sarah your daughter-in-law.
Isiah 14:3 Et erit in die illa:
cum requiem dederit tibi Dominus
a labore tuo et a concussione tua
et a servitute dura, qua ante servisti,
Saint Anthony of Lisboa (where he was born), or Saint Anthony of Coimbra (were he studied, was ordained, and joined the Franciscans.)
Your responses are unintelligible. Above is my simple question.
You don’t want me to answer that.