Saints' Memorials in LOTH during Advent


#1

Normally on saints' memorials in the Liturgy of the Hours, when there are no propers for the day outside of the concluding prayer, you have the option of using the common or the weekday invitatory, hymn, reading, responsory, Benedictus/Magnificat antiphon, and intercessions. I generally prefer to go with the weekday options. But what about during Advent? Since everything that comes after the 3rd psalm/canticle is proper during Advent, may one use the Advent weekday propers even on saints' memorials? Or may you only use the commons of saints on those days? My St. Joseph's guide to Christian Prayer doesn't list the page numbers for the Advent propers for non-optional memorials (like the one for St. John Damascene the other day), and so that got me wondering.

And just to be perfectly clear, I'm referring specifically to Morning and Evening Prayer.


#2

I believe you can still do saints' memorials. Some of the memorials are timed such that they will always be during Advent, so I'd be shocked if they were intended never to be used. I've been doing all the memorials, at least.
They only exception, I think, may be the days - starting on the 17th, I believe, when there is a proper for that particular date - not just, e.g., Friday of the second week of Advent. For those I plan on doing the Advent propers rather than any memorials on those days.


#3

For saint's memorials that don't have a proper hymn or antiphon, you can use the hymn or antiphon of the current day which means the Advent ones at this time. But you use the collect of the saint. In other words you can make the memorial only the collect, and of course the hagiographic reading at the Office of Readings.

Today is St. Ambrosius, and in Latin there's a proper hymn for Lauds, so one would use that. For the gospel canticle antiphon, you can use either the common or the proper for Advent since St. Ambrosius does not have a proper canticle in the Roman rite as far as I know.

For those chanting the Office, at the minor hours (Terce, Sext, None) one would use the hymn tone for Advent (at least in Latin, the Advent tone does not lend itself well to the vernacular).

In the last week of Advent, all memorials are optional and as Advent takes precedence over them, if you chose to observe an optional memorial in that time, you would do the entire office of that day of Advent, then after the final collect, you would recite the antiphon of the gospel canticle (without the canticle) from the proper or common, and the collect of the saint. The same applies during the entire season of Lent, when all memorials are optional.


#4

[quote="DavidJoseph, post:1, topic:307526"]
Normally on saints' memorials in the Liturgy of the Hours, when there are no propers for the day outside of the concluding prayer, you have the option of using the common or the weekday invitatory, hymn, reading, responsory, Benedictus/Magnificat antiphon, and intercessions. I generally prefer to go with the weekday options. But what about during Advent? Since everything that comes after the 3rd psalm/canticle is proper during Advent, may one use the Advent weekday propers even on saints' memorials? Or may you only use the commons of saints on those days? My St. Joseph's guide to Christian Prayer doesn't list the page numbers for the Advent propers for non-optional memorials (like the one for St. John Damascene the other day), and so that got me wondering.

And just to be perfectly clear, I'm referring specifically to Morning and Evening Prayer.

[/quote]

I believe you can follow the same patter as memorials in Ordinary Time up to December 17th (all non-Feasts or Solemnities after that become Commemorations, which have different rules, which apply on Dec 17-24, the Octave of Christmas, and weekdays of Lent. Cf. no 238 of the GILOTH).

divineoffice.org for today's Morning Prayer (Memorial of St. Ambrose) used the Commons for the Reading, Responsory, Canticle antiphon, and intercessions. (as an example)


#5

The same principles apply for Memorials during Advent as in Ordinary Time, but personally, I change my behaviour somewhat, that is, I select other options as provided by the rubrics.

These days, I do the following:

During Ordinary Time, I check the Proper of Saints and see if there is a proper antiphon for the Canticle of Zechariah and Canticle of Mary. If there is, then:

I use the Invitatory Antiphon, Hymn, Reading and Responsory and Intercessions from the Common.

If there isn't, a proper antiphon for the Canticle of Zechariah and Canticle of Mary, I use the Invitatory Antiphon, Hymn, Reading and Responsory, and Intercessions from the Weekday, while I take the antiphons from the Canticle of Zechariah and Canticle of Mary from the Common.

However, during Advent, whatever is not in the Proper of Saints, I take from the Weekday (i.e. Proper of Seasons). I do not use anything from the Common unless the Proper actually directs us to it (a key example is today, December 7, where the Proper for St. Ambrose directs us to use the Hymn from the Common of Doctors. Everything else not from the Proper of Saints, I took from the Weekday and Proper of Seasons.


#6

[quote="porthos11, post:5, topic:307526"]
The same principles apply for Memorials during Advent as in Ordinary Time, but personally, I change my behaviour somewhat, that is, I select other options as provided by the rubrics.

These days, I do the following:

During Ordinary Time, I check the Proper of Saints and see if there is a proper antiphon for the Canticle of Zechariah and Canticle of Mary. If there is, then:

I use the Invitatory Antiphon, Hymn, Reading and Responsory and Intercessions from the Common.

If there isn't, a proper antiphon for the Canticle of Zechariah and Canticle of Mary, I use the Invitatory Antiphon, Hymn, Reading and Responsory, and Intercessions from the Weekday, while I take the antiphons from the Canticle of Zechariah and Canticle of Mary from the Common.

However, during Advent, whatever is not in the Proper of Saints, I take from the Weekday (i.e. Proper of Seasons). I do not use anything from the Common unless the Proper actually directs us to it (a key example is today, December 7, where the Proper for St. Ambrose directs us to use the Hymn from the Common of Doctors. Everything else not from the Proper of Saints, I took from the Weekday and Proper of Seasons.

[/quote]

In Latin, for St. Ambrose, there's actually a proper hymn for Lauds, so that's what I used this morning.

This is one area where there's some latitude. However I am using Les Heures Gregoriennes these days to chant the Office in Latin, and the Propers and Commons are in their own separate volume (and they're HUGE books; there are 3 volumes, Vol I, Advent-Christmas, OT, Vol II, Lent, Easter season, Vol III, saints) so for the sake of convenience, I am using the the Propers when that is required, and the Commons for when there are no propers so I can stick with the same volume.

When I'm using the Monastic Office I have a bit more choices; the volumes are smaller and everything spread among several books in any case. If you pray the Monastic Office, expect to be inconvenienced :( Les Heures Grégoriennes is a brilliantly designed antiphonary, as easy to use as it's possible to do so for the Divine Office.


#7

[quote="OraLabora, post:6, topic:307526"]
When I'm using the Monastic Office I have a bit more choices; the volumes are smaller and everything spread among several books in any case. If you pray the Monastic Office, expect to be inconvenienced :( Les Heures Grégoriennes is a brilliantly designed antiphonary, as easy to use as it's possible to do so for the Divine Office.

[/quote]

Is there one Monastic Office or do different monastic orders have their own office? If there is one Monastic Office, where is it sold?


#8

Thanks for clearing things up for me, y'all!


#9

[quote="St_Stephen, post:7, topic:307526"]
Is there one Monastic Office or do different monastic orders have their own office? If there is one Monastic Office, where is it sold?

[/quote]

Among the Benedictines there are 4 official schemas. Schema A is the original 1500 y.o. schema of St. Benedict adapted for post-Vatican II use (ability to omit Prime and distribute those psalms to other hours, same calendar and collects as post Vatican II, etc.).

Schema B is a schema from the 70s that recites all 150 psalms in a week, again with the post-Vatican II calendar. There are options to spread it over 2 weeks as well.

Schemas C and D I am less familiar with but have the psalter distributed over 2 weeks.

Then there's a small number of abbeys that use the pre-Vatican II Benedictine Office (Breviarium Monasticum).

I only know of Latin and Latin-French sources for Schema A. I have a Schema B breviary in French only (with Latin hymns and gospel canticles and antiphons though), with a couple of Latin-French noted books for Lauds and Vespers. This is what the abbey I am affiliated with uses. Alas all out of print.

Then between all that there are abbeys that have put together their own schemas. For instance Douai in the UK does Matins (Vigils and Lauds combined) and mid-day prayer on a 4-week schema similar to the LOTH in English, and then they do Vespers and Compline from the 1934 Antiphonale Monasticum (in Latin Gregorian chant).

You see in Benedictine abbots have considerable latitude in this area. Some of them have books they put out for oblates though, that may help.

Then there are the Cistercians (common and strict observances), another ballgame altogether.

Here's a summary of various Offices pre- and post-Vatican II:

Psalter schemas


#10

[quote="OraLabora, post:9, topic:307526"]
Among the Benedictines there are 4 official schemas. Schema A is the original 1500 y.o. schema of St. Benedict adapted for post-Vatican II use (ability to omit Prime and distribute those psalms to other hours, same calendar and collects as post Vatican II, etc.).

Schema B is a schema from the 70s that recites all 150 psalms in a week, again with the post-Vatican II calendar. There are options to spread it over 2 weeks as well.

Schemas C and D I am less familiar with but have the psalter distributed over 2 weeks.

Then there's a small number of abbeys that use the pre-Vatican II Benedictine Office (Breviarium Monasticum).

I only know of Latin and Latin-French sources for Schema A. I have a Schema B breviary in French only (with Latin hymns and gospel canticles and antiphons though), with a couple of Latin-French noted books for Lauds and Vespers. This is what the abbey I am affiliated with uses. Alas all out of print.

Then between all that there are abbeys that have put together their own schemas. For instance Douai in the UK does Matins (Vigils and Lauds combined) and mid-day prayer on a 4-week schema similar to the LOTH in English, and then they do Vespers and Compline from the 1934 Antiphonale Monasticum (in Latin Gregorian chant).

You see in Benedictine abbots have considerable latitude in this area. Some of them have books they put out for oblates though, that may help.

Then there are the Cistercians (common and strict observances), another ballgame altogether.

Here's a summary of various Offices pre- and post-Vatican II:

Psalter schemas

[/quote]

Thanks very much!:)


#11

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