Saints' Omnipresence


#1

When listening to the Saints debate between James White and Patrick Madrid, I heard a good response to the question of, “How can saints be everywhere or hear all prayers?”

The answer was, “how can the devil tempt any and everyone at any given time?” The devil, having this ability, disproves any argument that restricts omnipresence, in a sense, to God alone. Being that the devil is a mere creature, omnipresence is certainly not restricted to a divine being, and it makes even more sense that souls perfected in righteousness would have an ability even greater than that. Right?

Peace,
Michael


#2

But its not only the devil who tempts, he has many followers too.
I like to think that a prayer is carried by my guardian angel to heaven and thats how saints can hear us, because it is taken specifically to them, not because they are omnipresent ( which i think can only be attributed to God ).

Also, Lucifer is a very powerful being, an Archangel probably. These beings can move very fast, but i dont think they are actually omnipresent, and certainly are more powerful than any human, whether or not they are in heaven. Being in perfect righteousness does not necessarily equate omnipresence on earth, maybe in heaven. But, we’ll find that out soon enough.


#3

Satan is an archangel – an angel of light.

Turned dark by his choice.


#4

[quote=michaelgazin]When listening to the Saints debate between James White and Patrick Madrid, I heard a good response to the question of, “How can saints be everywhere or hear all prayers?”

The answer was, “how can the devil tempt any and everyone at any given time?” The devil, having this ability, disproves any argument that restricts omnipresence, in a sense, to God alone. Being that the devil is a mere creature, omnipresence is certainly not restricted to a divine being, and it makes even more sense that souls perfected in righteousness would have an ability even greater than that. Right?

Peace,
Michael
[/quote]

I wouldn’t say Saints and the devil aren’t omnipresent. That is an attribute of God alone. I would say that they are not necisarily controled by time like we are.


#5

Keeping in mind that angel means messenger… In Tobit, the archangel Raphael presented Tobit’s prayer to God (Tobit 12:12). It seems to me that our guardian angel could present our prayer to a saint just as easily as he could present it to God. This would eliminate any need for the saints in heaven to be omnipresent to receive our prayers to them.

I have also heard that God, who is omnipresent, makes our prayers to the saints known to them.


#6

The Saints share in the Divine presence. They are united to God in a way that we cannot grasp. Saints are not “all knowing” or “omnipresent” or anythng else. What they know is what God reveals to them. They are aware of what goes on “down here” and they hear and respond to our prayers because that is what God allows and wants them to do.


#7

[quote=Magicsilence]Lucifer is a very powerful being, an Archangel …
[/quote]

While a very powerful being, keep in mind that Archangels and Angels are still below the Seraphim (Isaiah 6:2) and Cherubim (Ezekiel 10:3-22) in the celestial hierarchy. Also, the word ‘Seraphim’ means ‘burning ones’ (Ezekiel 1:4), while ‘Angel’ means ‘messenger’.

RyanL


#8

[quote=Br. Rich SFO]Saints are not “all knowing” or “omnipresent” or anythng else.
[/quote]

I agree. If saints were omnipresent they would have to loose that ability at the time of the ressurection of the dead. I wouldn’t think those people would loose a quality they would possess.


#9

Some saints, it is said, were gifted with bilocation when on earth. I don’t think saints need the quality of omnipresence, but I likewise see no reason to deny them the ability to be “present enough” (bilocation, multilocation – two, three, a hundred, a million – presentations).

:twocents:
tee


#10

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