Salvation and the Church: Protestants and Christ


#1

**I am curious about the controversy: Outside the Church there is No Salvation. **

Protestants believe that Catholics can be saved that believe in Jesus. Now, what about Catholics?

I read in Dr. Drummey’s book: Catholic Replies (pg. 99-100). That the dogma in question can be held in a strict interpetation or a liberal one – which is it?


This was a letter that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith issued in regard to the Fr. Feeney dilemma in the late 1980’s.

**Also, I read that a book similar to Fr. Feeney’s called: **


The Catholic Dogma, by Fr. Michael Muller C.SS.R. was approved by the Redemptorists and that this priest was in good standing and rejected the notion that Protestants can be saved either in vincible or invincible ignorance.

What are your thoughts?

Thank you!

BobbyBaptist


#2

The Catholic Church makes claims about herself that are easily misunderstood, especially in the modern atmosphere of pluralism and ecumenism. Among these claims, the most fundamental is the doctrine of the Church’s necessity for salvation. Not unlike other dogmas of the faith, this one has seen some remarkable development, and the dogmatic progress has been especially marked since the definition of papal infallibility. It seems that as the Church further clarified her own identity as regards the papacy and collegiality, she also deepened (without changing) her self-understanding as the mediator of salvation to mankind…

Those who are privileged to share in the fullness of the Church’s riches of revealed wisdom, sacramental power, divinely assured guidance, and blessings of community life cannot pride themselves on having deserved what they possess. Rather they should humbly recognize their chosen position and gratefully live up to the covenant to which they have been called. Otherwise what began as a sign of God’s special favor on earth may end as a witness to his justice in the life to come.

Fr John Hardon SJ
ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ315.HTM


#3

CCC - A sure norm for teaching the faith JPII

scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm

Wounds to unity

817 In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ’s Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:

Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272
(My Bold)

To take the example of EENS, (no salvation outside the Church) the CCC is quite clear

CCC 847 - This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation


#4

Yes,we believe that Jesus can save anyone he wants to.As far as the priest you mention I have not seen what you are referring to,and just because someone is in good standing does not mean everything they say is. God Bless


#5

Protestants are in ‘a certain, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church’ (see below)

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

Who belongs to the Catholic Church?

836 "All men are called to this catholic unity of the People of God. . . . And to it, in different ways, belong or are ordered: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind, called by God’s grace to salvation."320

837 "Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who - by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion - are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but ‘in body’ not ‘in heart.’"321

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist."324


#6

The teaching (EENS) has never changed, some people at various times have decided to give it their own personal slant and some indeed, such as Fr Feeney have had to be disciplined by the Church for it.

‘And so it is with the theological slogan, extra ecclesiam nulla salus (Latin for “outside the Church, no salvation”). This is a doctrine of the Catholic Church, one that’s found in every age of Catholic history, and it’s held to by the Church’s best and most influential minds. Understood properly, its dogmatic truth is beyond question. The problem arises, however, when this slogan is given a life of its own. And so it was in the 1940s with Fr. Leonard Feeney.’

envoymagazine.com/backis…coverstory.html


#7

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276


#8

Catholics consider that most Protestants are already part of Christ’s One Church (i.e. the Catholic Church) through their baptism, although imperfectly united to it.

As an example, those baptized protestants who are going through the Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults to become Catholic, receive their first confession before being “formally” received into the Church on Easter Vigil. They can receive this Catholic sacrament because they are already “in” the Church through their baptism.


#9

see my invincible ignorance post–the only way a Proteatant can be saved is if he is invincinbly ignorant of the Catholic church and seeks the truth to the best of his ability… if he is ignorant but the ignorance is his fault and he is judged in that state then he goes to hell… Outside the catholic church there is no salvation…if u read Piux XII’s humani generis he warns not to reduce “otuside the church there is no slavation” to a “meaningless phrase…” do some catholics on this forum do that??? hmmm u decide…


#10

[quote=marineboy]see my invincible ignorance post–the only way a Proteatant can be saved is if he is invincinbly ignorant of the Catholic church and seeks the truth to the best of his ability… if he is ignorant but the ignorance is his fault and he is judged in that state then he goes to hell… Outside the catholic church there is no salvation…if u read Piux XII’s humani generis he warns not to reduce “otuside the church there is no slavation” to a “meaningless phrase…” do some catholics on this forum do that??? hmmm u decide…
[/quote]

You want to make sure that he does not try to find out anything else about the Catholic faith don’t you?You amaze me!:tsktsk: Isn’t there another thread that is happy that you could look for to lighten up?Please marine boy stop this:crying: Now I guess since offending non-catholics is apparently not enough you are going to start on Catholics as well. Catholics here LOVE the teachings of the Church,you continue to twist them and make God look unjust,Please stop.God Bless


#11

lisa why do u keep coming at me personally–if i said anything untruw please deal with that–but what i said was true… Protestanism saves no one!!!


#12

[quote=marineboy]lisa why do u keep coming at me personally–if i said anything untruw please deal with that–but what i said was true… Protestanism saves no one!!!
[/quote]

Your right protestantism saves no one,Jesus does.I am trying to make you understand the way you are going about your threads and posts will not create a convert friendly environment, if that is indeed what you are trying to do.Even them wanting to find out about Our Church could be diverted because of how you come across.And people have tried to explain that your understanding of that is not correct, the catechism has been quoted, a priest has tried talking to you,so I am beginning to wonder if you are indeed trying to run non-catholics off.God Bless


#13

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