Salvation for Non-Catholics


#1

Will non-Catholic Christians make it to heaven? If so, how will this happen?

Will Jews, God’s chosen for the first covenant, make it to heaven? If so, why? If not, why not?

If Jesus Christ founded one true Church, what happens to those who are outside of it?

What are pre and post Vatican II views on this?

Please show me references, I hear different things from different people and I want at least some sort of official straight answer, if there even is one.


#2

[quote="HailHolyQueen90, post:1, topic:283448"]
Will non-Catholic Christians make it to heaven? If so, how will this happen?

Will Jews, God's chosen for the first covenant, make it to heaven? If so, why? If not, why not?

If Jesus Christ founded one true Church, what happens to those who are outside of it?

What are pre and post Vatican II views on this?

Please show me references, I hear different things from different people and I want at least some sort of official straight answer, if there even is one.

[/quote]

The Church condemned the Feeneyites in the last century. It was started by a Father Feeney who claimed only Catholics can be saved.

God can save anyone He chooses to save.

Saint Paul writes a strange thing when He says that in the end all Israel will be saved. I don't know what that means.

Jesus says to whom much is given much is required. We are judged individually, depending on what we are given, how we respond to our individual circumstances and opportunities.


#3

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church Imprimi Potest. Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger (Pope Benedict)

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p3.htm#I

816 "The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter’s pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it. . . . This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him."267
The Second Vatican Council’s Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ’s Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God."268

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272
819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, 275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

Excerpt of Dogmatic Constitution of the Catholic, LUMEN GENTIUM, solemnly promulgated by his holiness Pope Paul v1 on November 21, 1964

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html

"15. The Church recognizes that in many ways she is linked with those who, being baptized, are honored with the name of Christian, though they do not profess the faith in its entirety or do not preserve unity of communion with the successor of Peter. (14*) For there are many who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal. They lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour. (15*) They are consecrated by baptism, in which they are united with Christ. They also recognize and accept other sacraments within their own Churches or ecclesiastical communities. Many of them rejoice in the episcopate, celebrate the Holy Eucharist and cultivate devotion toward the Virgin Mother of God.(16*) They also share with us in prayer and other spiritual benefits.

Likewise we can say that in some real way they are joined with us in the Holy Spirit, for to them too He gives His gifts and graces whereby He is operative among them with His sanctifying power. Some indeed He has strengthened to the extent of the shedding of their blood. In all of Christ’s disciples the Spirit arouses the desire to be peacefully united, in the manner determined by Christ, as one flock under one shepherd, and He prompts them to pursue this end. (17*) Mother Church never ceases to pray, hope and work that this may come about. She exhorts her children to purification and renewal so that the sign of Christ may shine more brightly over the face of the earth."


#4

Trishie,
Thank you for posting that from the Catechism. I haven't had the honor of going through the RCIA classes yet and almost can't wait to. This cleared up a lot of questions I had. :)


#5

=HailHolyQueen90;9266170]Will non-Catholic Christians make it to heaven? If so, how will this happen?

Will Jews, God's chosen for the first covenant, make it to heaven? If so, why? If not, why not?

If Jesus Christ founded one true Church, what happens to those who are outside of it?

What are pre and post Vatican II views on this?

Please show me references, I hear different things from different people and I want at least some sort of official straight answer, if there even is one.

Only God can KNOW with certitude.

There is room to doubt as they are not a part of the Only God; Only One Faith and Only One Church God Himself commissioned and protects. Also the issue of not accepting [due to a weakened faith and a consequent lack of right understanding] of at least three biblically cler issues: 1. One Church and the Soverignity of Peter 2. The Real Presence as explained by God Himself and FIVE different Bible authors 3. Forgiveness of sin John 20;19-23].

John.10: 16 **“And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. **So there shall be one flock, one shepherd

*Eph. 4: 1-7 *“I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all lowliness and meekness, with patience, forbearing one another in love, eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, one faith [MEANS only One set of beliefs], one baptism, one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ's gift".

*Eph. 2:19-20 *“So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”

Eph. 3: 9-10 ** “And to make all men see what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things; that through the church [singular] the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places. **This was according to the eternal purpose which he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord"

It remains a FACT that God will; because God MUSt judge each of us NOT on the personal believes WE CHOOSE to accept; but on what HE GOD makes POSSIBLE for each of us to actually know. That is what Devine Justice MUST DO.

So we ought to continue to answer there questions in charity and clarity. Continue to pray for them and then leave it UP TO OUR GOD.:)

Thanks for asking,
God Bless,
Pat/PJM


#6

God's the only who truly knows & truly knows what's in a man's heart & mind.

That being said we all know there are non-Catholics who view the Church with respect & use many of its teachings etc as the above quoted while there are also "Christians" who base their "Christianity" on little more than tearing down Catholics & even the majority of mainline Protestants :(


#7

[quote="HailHolyQueen90, post:1, topic:283448"]
Will non-Catholic Christians make it to heaven? If so, how will this happen?

Will Jews, God's chosen for the first covenant, make it to heaven? If so, why? If not, why not?

If Jesus Christ founded one true Church, what happens to those who are outside of it?

What are pre and post Vatican II views on this?

Please show me references, I hear different things from different people and I want at least some sort of official straight answer, if there even is one.

[/quote]

Same way it happens for Catholics....by the grace and mercy of God.


#8

[quote="HailHolyQueen90, post:1, topic:283448"]
Will non-Catholic Christians make it to heaven? If so, how will this happen?

Will Jews, God's chosen for the first covenant, make it to heaven? If so, why? If not, why not?

If Jesus Christ founded one true Church, what happens to those who are outside of it?

What are pre and post Vatican II views on this?

Please show me references, I hear different things from different people and I want at least some sort of official straight answer, if there even is one.

[/quote]

Since the 1960's some Jews have been permitted to enter heaven, however they are not permitted to join the Golf and Country club or to use the pool. :shrug:


#9

Alright, so we ‘don’t know’ and ‘just leave it up to God to decide.’ What do Catholics do with the idea:

*Pope Boniface VIII, Bull Unam sanctam (1302): *“We are compelled in virtue of our faith to believe and maintain that there is only one holy Catholic Church, and that one is apostolic. This we firmly believe and profess without qualification. Outside this Church there is no salvation and no remission of sins, the Spouse in the Canticle proclaiming: ‘One is my dove, my perfect one. One is she of her mother, the chosen of her that bore her’ (Canticle of Canticles 6:8); which represents the one mystical body whose head is Christ, of Christ indeed, as God. And in this, ‘one Lord, one faith, one baptism’ (Ephesians 4:5). Certainly Noah had one ark at the time of the flood, prefiguring one Church which perfect to one cubit having one ruler and guide, namely Noah, outside of which we read all living things were destroyed… We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (k.s. Wikipedia)


#10

=silverdenali;9266974]God’s the only who truly knows & truly knows what’s in a man’s heart & mind.

That being said we all know there are non-Catholics who view the Church with respect & use many of its teachings etc as the above quoted while there are also “Christians” who base their “Christianity” on little more than tearing down Catholics & even the majority of mainline Protestants :frowning:

What must not overlooked here is that salvation is EVERYTHING about what God wants, desires, Commands and Ordains.

There is by God’s intent little room for personal opinions and preferences. WHY? To limit the odds of us choosing poorly. YES: God does LOVE us THAT MUCH:D

Nowhere; not one time can anyone point to God teaching a MANDATORY belief of more than:

One God
Only One set of Faith beliefs and
Only one Chosen people [OT Jews] and NT Catholics Amen!

God Bless,
pat/PJM


#11

It remains a FACT that God will; because God MUST judge each of us; NOT on the personal beliefs WE CHOOSE to accept, but on what HE makes POSSIBLE for each of us to actually know. That is what Devine Justice MUST DO.

So we ought to continue to answer their questions in charity and clarity. Continue to pray for them and then leave it UP TO OUR GOD.

-PJM

so does this mean that i can still go to heaven, even though if i'm an atheist? please be specific, this is a real question.

because i've never thought that believing in jesus as a god was a choice that i could make. it isn't that my heart is hardened; if jesus christ floated down on a cloud to meet me, i would dramatically revise my worldview;p


#12

[quote="z0wb13, post:11, topic:283448"]
so does this mean that i can still go to heaven, even though if i'm an atheist? please be specific, this is a real question.

because i've never thought that believing in jesus as a god was a choice that i could make. it isn't that my heart is hardened; if jesus christ floated down on a cloud to meet me, i would dramatically revise my worldview;p

[/quote]

No. God is very clear that one must believe in Him in order to get to heaven. Yes yes yes I know it is up to God and only He can judge but He tells us that one must believe in Him in order to be saved.

"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son."


#13

I personally don’t care about the afterlife.


#14

[quote="AugustXVIII, post:13, topic:283448"]
I personally don't care about the afterlife.

[/quote]

Aren't you a lucky person! The afterlife cares about you!


#15

[quote="z0wb13, post:11, topic:283448"]
so does this mean that i can still go to heaven, even though if i'm an atheist? please be specific, this is a real question.

[/quote]

Certainly!


#16

=z0wb13;9279622]so does this mean that i can still go to heaven, even though if i'm an atheist? please be specific, this is a real question.

because i've never thought that believing in jesus as a god was a choice that i could make. it isn't that my heart is hardened; if jesus christ floated down on a cloud to meet me, i would dramatically revise my worldview;p

:o SORRY, NO!
* there is NO need for this because God is Perfect in everyway: ALl-Knowing so it is a unnecessary act IF this is the Only reason.

  1. The MAJOR reason is that through CREATION 1st. of the Universe, then humanity; the evidence For a God is unavoidable and THEREFORE "can be known by everyone'. Anyone one who rejects this FACT; HAs chosen to reject God; the one unforgiveable sin and therefore DAMMS themself for Eternity.:(

A THIRD point:

The fact that you "found" this CAF Forum is alos evidence of God making the POSSIBILITY of YOU KNOWING of Him. There are no such things as "accidents" or coincediences; or luck: good or bad. EVERYTHING is Ordained by God.

So my friend yoy either accept what God HAS made possible for you or suffer the consequences. Our actions DO have consequences.

And as a further FYI: GOOGLE "Eucharistic Mircales" Jesus has in a sense floated down on a cloud for you.:D

I can answer all of your questions if you'll allow me to. Send me a Private Message.

I'll pray for you,

pat/PJM*


#17

There is no salvation outside of the CC. When as taught in the true context when it was taught is the Catholic Church is Jesus Christ.

Christ told us he and his Church are one.

Anyone that is baptised in the name of the Trinity are baptised into the Catholic Church and are part of the CC.

Although many are not perfectly united to the Church in all of the sacraments they are part of the CC.

SO can anyone enter heaven without being baptised? Who can say. All we know is that we are told one Baptsim for the forgiveness of sins.

But we are also told that we can rely on the mercy of Christ. But does that mean we can say one can enter into heaven without baptism? No, We cannot say that.

SO is there salvation outside of Jesus Christ? NO It is because of the death and ress. of Christ that we are able to enter heaven and because of his death we have salvation.

That is how the Church has taught from the beginning of time and has always taught.

Can a person enter heaven without being baptised in this world? It is possible because anything is possible with the Mercy of God.

Does the Church teach we can? No because Christ said all must be baptised in order to have eternal life.

So the Church can only teach what is revealed to them in the gospel.


#18

[quote="z0wb13, post:11, topic:283448"]
so does this mean that i can still go to heaven, even though if i'm an atheist? please be specific, this is a real question.

because i've never thought that believing in jesus as a god was a choice that i could make. it isn't that my heart is hardened; if jesus christ floated down on a cloud to meet me, i would dramatically revise my worldview;p

[/quote]

Let me ask you a honest question. What would make you think that if you do not choose to accept Jesus in this life you would change your mind in the next then?

I mean we all have free will to accept God and honor his commands or to reject him and his word.

Now while I agree you have alot of time to make that final decision, what makes you think if you rejected him here, you would not reject him in the next world?

Just wondering.:confused:


#19

=rinnie;9281296]There is no salvation outside of the CC. When as taught in the true context when it was taught is the Catholic Church is Jesus Christ.

Christ told us he and his Church are one.

Anyone that is baptised in the name of the Trinity are baptised into the Catholic Church and are part of the CC.

Although many are not perfectly united to the Church in all of the sacraments they are part of the CC.

SO can anyone enter heaven without being baptised? Who can say. All we know is that we are told one Baptsim for the forgiveness of sins.

But we are also told that we can rely on the mercy of Christ. But does that mean we can say one can enter into heaven without baptism? No, We cannot say that.

SO is there salvation outside of Jesus Christ? NO It is because of the death and ress. of Christ that we are able to enter heaven and because of his death we have salvation.

That is how the Church has taught from the beginning of time and has always taught.

Can a person enter heaven without being baptised in this world? It is possible because anything is possible with the Mercy of God.

Does the Church teach we can? No because Christ said all must be baptised in order to have eternal life.

So the Church can only teach what is revealed to them in the gospel.

OK! :thumbsup:

But does Baptism have more than a single acceptable form?

What about those that TRULY do not have an opportunity to KNOW OF CHRIST?

Godbless,
pat/PJM


#20

=rinnie;9281319]Let me ask you a honest question. What would make you think that if you do not choose to accept Jesus in this life you would change your mind in the next then?

I mean we all have free will to accept God and honor his commands or to reject him and his word.

Now while I agree you have alot of time to make that final decision, what makes you think if you rejected him here, you would not reject him in the next world?

Just wondering.:confused:

And what warraty do you have that you will NOT die today?:o

Opprtunity ignored =opportunity LOST!

God Bless,
pat/PJM


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