Salvation of unbaptized children quote

Just for fun and without googling. Anyone have a guess as to where this comes from? Paramedic girl can’t answer since I already told her where it comes from.

There are many threads on this topic and related topics that basically can be summed up in this quote. While this quote had to deal with unbaptized children, there may be emergency means for all of the unbaptized that are possible but not revealed. We can have hope but we should never give up on seeing everyone in the Church formally. We simply don’t know what happens spiritually the moments before our death . We don’t know how our prayers may be answered. We can hope for the best and pray for the worst. God may have ways of getting some into the Church (which I agree one must be part of to attain salvation) that we just don’t know about.

Other emergency means of baptism for children dying without sacramental baptism, such as prayer and the desire of the parents or the Church (vicarious baptism of desire - Cajetan), or the attainment of the use of reason in the moment of death, so that the dying child can decide for or against God (baptism of desire - H. Klee), or suffering and death of the child as quasi-Sacrament (baptism of suffering - H. Schell), are indeed possible, but their actuality cannot be proved from Revelation

Come on now. Here’s a hint. Traditionalist quote from it often.

IIRC it’s from Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Ludwig Ott. I wasn’t aware that he was favored by traditionalists. I think everyone quotes him just because there’s no other theology manual (at least that I know of) that is available in English.

We have a winner!!!

Ludwig Ott, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma (St. Louis: B. Herder Book Company, 1958), 114.

Thanks for playing the “Why We Can Still Have Hope” game.:thumbsup:

Whats all this talk about traditions? will traditions get babies into heaven? anyway, arent the traditions of men worthless, like Jesus said they were. why do we catholics do so many things that jesus said we shouldnt do? one for instance is…" call no man Father"

This sounds like a whole other thread (I dont’t think we were talking about traditions) but the short answer would be that we’re not following the traditions of men. We follow the Traditions of the Traditions that come from God through his Church.

2 Thessalonians 2:15 KJV
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Sound familar? There is tradition and there is Tradition.

I believe what he said was this:

Matthew 23 8-10 KJV
8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. 9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

Ironchef, what is the name you use for the man who had relations with your wife to give you birth?
Have you ever called a medical person with a PhD a doctor? Did you know doctor means teacher which is english for rabbi?

What Jesus meant here was that no one who is deserving of a title mentioned above shouldn’t have it. What he meant was that no one should be elevated to God’s status in society. Do you think we worship priests? Of course not! They are spiritual fathers.

So I guess all those people in scripture who call other men fathers are in error? Did the Holy Spirit slip when inspiring THAT Scripture?



]AMONG Fundamentalists’ most common complaints against the Catholic faith is this: “You Catholics violate Scripture when you call your priests Father.' After all, Scripture says,Call no man your father on earth’ (Matt. 23:9).”

You might point out to Fundamentalists that not only are we told not to call any man “father,” we’re told not to call any man “rabbi” (Matt. 23:8), which means “teacher” (John 1:38). This restriction must apply also to the word “doctor,” which comes from the Latin for “teacher.”

Yet your Fundamentalist friends commonly refer to their pastor as “Dr. Such-and-So.” Are they violating the command they accuse Catholics of violating, or is there a basic confusion at play?

Note that in some passages a person is referred to as another’s spiritual son, implying the other person is the spiritual father.

“All those who sat in the Sanhedrin looked intently at him and saw that his face was like the face of an angel. And the high priest said, Is this so?' And Stephen said,My brothers and fathers, listen. The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia’” (Acts 6:14, 7:1-2).

“Paul stood on the steps and motioned with his hand to the people; when all was quiet, he addressed them in Hebrew, `My brothers and fathers, listen to what I am about to say to you in my defense’” (Acts 21:40, 22:1).

“It depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his descendants–not only to the adherents of the law but also to those who share the faith of Abraham, for he is the father of us all, as it is written, `I have made you the father of many nations’” (Rom. 4:16-17).

“I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus” (1 Cor. 4:14-15).

“You know how, like a father with his children, we exhorted each one of you and encouraged you and charged you to lead a life worthy of God, who calls you into his own kingdom and glory” (1Thess. 2:11-12).

“God is treating you as sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Besides this, we have had earthly fathers to discipline us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live?” (Heb. 12:7-9).

“This charge I commit to you, Timothy, my son” (1 Tim. 1:18).

“You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Jesus Christ” (2 Tim. 2:1).

“I appeal to you for my child, Onesimus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment” (Philem. 10).

“I am writing to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. . . . I write to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning” (1 John 2:13).

Does this mean I can play now? :wink:

You can play now! :wink: We already have a winner so you wouldn’t ruin the game.

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