Salvation requirements


#1

“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life, and he that believeth not the son, shall not see life: but the wrath of God abideth on him.” John 3:36
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life" John 5:24.
“Most assuredly I say to you he who believes in Me has eternal life.” John 6:47
"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 6:23.

We are saved by grace through faith, and not of works, lest any man boast. I feel confident that these scriptures are true, and I am saved by believing in Jesus Christ, and His work on the cross. It is a gift from God. I am a sinner and I accept Jesus Christ as my saviour.

I realize that this is only the beginning of my new life as a Christian, but I would like to know what other Christians feel is necessary for them to be saved. I’m not really interested in opinions, but would prefer Biblical backing substantianting your responses. Please try and stay on track, and tell us what is necessary for salvation [alone].

God Bless,
Robert
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Eph. 5:20-21 “Test all things, hold fast what is good.”
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#2

55 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day.

27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but Labour] for that which endureth unto life everlasting, which the Son of man will give you. For him hath God, the Father, sealed.

40 And you will not come to me that you may have life. - come to me - work.

18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying: Good master, what shall I do to possess everlasting life?

29 And every one that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall possess life everlasting.

44 Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee? 45 Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.

46 And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.

44 And if thy foot scandalize thee, cut it off. It is better for thee to enter lame into life everlasting, than having two feet, to be cast into the hell of unquenchable fire:

23 And Jesus looking round about, saith to his disciples: How hardly shall they that have riches, enter into the kingdom of God!

36 And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life everlasting: that both he that soweth, and he that reapeth, may rejoice together.

24 Amen, amen I say unto you, that he who heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath life everlasting; and cometh not into judgment, but is passed from death to life. - “…he who heareth my word…” - believes what He says]

8 For what things a man shall sow, those also shall he reap. For he that soweth in his flesh, of the flesh also shall reap corruption. But he that soweth in the spirit, of the spirit shall reap life everlasting.

21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ, unto life everlasting. - ‘keeping’ is work.]

10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer. Behold, the devil will cast some of you into prison that you may be tried: and you shall have tribulation ten days. Be thou faithful until death: and I will give thee the crown of life. - ‘…be thou faithful until death…’ - is work]

54 Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you.

10 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile.

29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost, shall never have forgiveness, but shall be guilty of an everlasting sin.

25 For he that will save his life, shall lose it: and he that shall lose his life for my sake, shall find it.

12 Again therefore, Jesus spoke to them, saying: I am the light of the world: he that followeth me, walketh not in darkness, but shall have the light of life. [following is work]

14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not, abideth in death.


#3

A definition of terms would be important first. Are you refering to the initial justification or something else? Note that some of the answers that you will recieve are going to refer to what Catholics call progressive justification. It is separate from and distinct from initial justification. The link(s) below will help a person understand what Catholics mean by this.

It would also be good if you were to read an article by James Akin. It appears as if you believe that Catholics think that by good works, we can earn our way to heaven. This is incorrect. We do not believe this.

Maybe you could read this article that helps define terms like sanctification and justification, otherwise, I am afraid any discussion, whether it relies on scripture or not, will be fruitless since there is likely not a meeting of minds when it comes to commonly used words like faith, grace, salvation, sanctification and justification.

More to read that would be helpful in this discussion that seems to start, by you at least by implication, with the false premise that Catholics think we can earn our way to heaven.

Justification in Catholic Teaching by James Akin

by James AkinJustification by Grace Alone

How Can I be Saved? by James Akin

I know that there appears to be alot of reading, but since it appears from your initial post that you do not understand the Catholic position and in fact may be asking us to prove something that we do not believe, it would be beneficial if you read some of these articles to understand what we believe (saved by grace), and what we don’t believe, (earning our way to heaven through works).

Here is another link with more reading that may be helpful to you.

Salvation. It contains the above links and much more.

God Bless,
Maria


#4

Hi

You have a good start there :thumbsup:

Now you need to add:

Communion with our Lord: John 6:53 - 66. Now notice here that he was not speaking figuratively, because “many of His disciples left Him” as they said “this is a hard teaching, who can accept it?” Did Jesus even try and say anything to persuade them this wasn’t meant literally? No. In fact the word used for “Eat” means literally to “gnaw” or “chew”. He meant it literally. Therefore we need the ''True Bread of Life" Christ present in the Eucharist.

You must also have Baptism: Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38; 1:5; 8:13,16 both by water and the Holy Spirit.

Confession of your sins: James 5:16, 1John 1:9, Acts 18:19
Notice that this is to another person who has authority to forgive as Christ gave authority here: John 20:22,23

You must seek out and do the will of God: Matthew 7:21,22 ; 12:50, John 7:17, ICorinthians 3:10-15, and many many more. Not that we “work our way into heaven” No not at all. But we must DO the will of God - “works” - Such as Communion, Baptism, Confession. Otherwise we our doing our own will, at best.

Right along with that I guess (for me it was anyway) we must discover where Christs Church IS. We have One God, with One Truth of and by Him, who obviously loves us therefore, there should be One Church here to lead us. Because by His loving us, and suffering for us - we can’t believe He would have left us orphaned here on earth. For me it was by the process of elimination - what you have left after all is examined MUST be the Truth, no matter how hard it is to swallow.

Which Church has been around the Longest?
Who did Christ say he would build His Church on? Matthew 16:17-19, Jesus gave authority to Peter, and after the Crucifixion Peter was the head of the Church, his name was mentioned first always, he was the first to enter the tomb of Christ, he led the early Church. Acts 1:13,15; 2:14, Chapter 3, 5:15, 8:20, etc. etc. Look how many times Peter is spoken of in Acts compared to everyone else (besides Paul anyway)

homepages.paradise.net.nz/mischedj/ct1_salvation.html That may be helpful, as well as this: scborromeo.org/ccc.htm You can use the index to look up anything you choose to explore, and come back for discussion if you wish.

That’s all I have time for right now
Peace to you
John


#5

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Note that contrary to what many think, the Catechism quotes and uses much scripture to explain our beliefs in Christ.

I. JUSTIFICATION
1987 The grace of the Holy Spirit has the power to justify us, that is, to cleanse us from our sins and to communicate to us “the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ” and through Baptism:34
But if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him. For we know that Christ being raised from the dead will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. The death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves as dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.35
1988 Through the power of the Holy Spirit we take part in Christ’s Passion by dying to sin, and in his Resurrection by being born to a new life; we are members of his Body which is the Church, branches grafted onto the vine which is himself:36
[God] gave himself to us through his Spirit. By the participation of the Spirit, we become communicants in the divine nature. . . . For this reason, those in whom the Spirit dwells are divinized.37
1989 The first work of the grace of the Holy Spirit is conversion, effecting justification in accordance with Jesus’ proclamation at the beginning of the Gospel: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."38 Moved by grace, man turns toward God and away from sin, thus accepting forgiveness and righteousness from on high. "Justification is not only the remission of sins, but also the sanctification and renewal of the interior man.39

34 Rom 3:22; cf. 6:3-4.
35 Rom 6:8-11
36 Cf. 1 Cor 12; Jn 15:1-4.

38 Mt 4:17


#6

The bible isn’t teaching us to ask the question, “What is the minimum?” and then attempting to do only that. (Be perfect… Mat 5:48) Nor is the bible about fear, so that we must obsess about doing things, running around scared that we need to do “more”. (…perfect love casts out fear… 1John 4:18).

Gen 12:1 Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go from your country and your kindred and your father’s house to the land that I will show you… 4 So Abram went, as the LORD had told him

The most basic “do” sort of thing starts when Jesus says to you, “Come and see,” or, “Come, follow me.” Well, go ahead and do it. :slight_smile: Just like Abraham in the quote above. Or just like the Apostles when Jesus called them.

Don’t shrink back. As did Paul, ask Jesus, “What am I to do, Lord?” see Acts 22:10 and perhaps read on to see what he did. The bible is filled with answers to that question. Do them. After all, * The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom*. I think a good overall attitude verse is the following:

Ephesians 5:1 Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children, 2 and live in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.

If you are looking for a theological answer instead of a practical one, realize that you aren’t going to follow Jesus without grace, nor are you going to hear him call you without grace, nor will you continue on until the end without grace. But that is not practical. You seem to want to know what to do. Salvation is not really your province, but God’s. The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear?


#7

Jesus expressed it very simply: Love God and love your neighbor.

He reinforced it when he said that any man who professes to love God but does not love his neighbor is a liar.

He gave us some very concrete examples of how we are to express our love for Him and for our neighbor in the parable of the sheep and the goats in Matthew 25, going so far as to describe the rewards for those do them and the punishment awaiting those who don’t.

Some very simple instructions for my very simple mind that the writings of Paul attempt to explain but never supersede.


#8

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
(1 John 1:8-10)

Confession!

There is a lot of scripture already posted on this in the thread called 'works" salvation.


#9

Sorry - it may be “called” works salvation…but it is NOT. Salvation is by Grace alone, not by works, lest any man should boast. Yet, curiously enough - confession is a ''work" is it not? Action is required on our part to attain salvation, even if that action is to accede to the will of God, why do we make that so HARD?

I found this over on the “Ask an apologist” board:

First, Salvation is a free gift of God. The Catholic Church teaches that “Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life“(CCC 1996).

Second, justification can never be merited. The Council of Trent stated that “none of those things which precede justification, whether faith or works, merit the grace of justification.” (Session six, Decree on Justification, ch. 8). Works have their role in our salvation, but our initial justification does not come from them. Scripture says, “In Christ Jesus, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love” (Galatians 5:6).

Third, a lonely faith does not justify----that is, a faith that is apart from works. Scripture says that “faith apart from works is dead” (James 2:26). After a person has been justified, God puts his love in the person’s heart (Rom. 5:5), and then the person is able to perform loving actions that please God (Rom. 8:8-9, Col. 1:10, 1 Cor.7:32), and he will reward him on the Last Day (Romans 2:6-10, Gal. 6:6-10).

CCC 1815 The gift of faith remains in one who has not sinned against it.80 But “faith apart from works is dead”:81 when it is deprived of hope and love, faith does not fully unite the believer to Christ and does not make him a living member of his Body.

CCC 2010: Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life.

Here is the link:
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=21275

Peace to you and yours!


#10

I think you misunderstood my post. I was directing the reader to a place where all the scriptures had already been posted about what is required for salvation. I am not responsible for the title of the thread, it was chosen by someone who does not understand Catholic Teaching on this matter.


#11

I think you misunderstood my post. I was directing the reader to a place where all the scriptures had already been posted about what is required for salvation. I am not responsible for the title of the thread, it was chosen by someone who does not understand Catholic Teaching on this matter.

My apologies - I did misunderstand you.

Peace

John


#12

Like all Scripture, those passages are great Robert902.

“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life, and he that believeth not the son, shall not see life: but the wrath of God abideth on him.” John 3:36 and “Most assuredly I say to you he who believes in me has eternal life.” John 6:47

Those passages show how critical it is to believe Jesus, His teaching. This teaching for example, “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty …” (Mt 25:41-46) Because Jesus said it, I believe it. Do you?

“I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life” John 5:24.

Not only are we to hear and believe Jesus’ words if we don’t want to be condemned, but also the word of “Him who sent Me”, God the Father. (The OT Ten Commandments for example)

“For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Romans 6:23.

Again, shows the need to be obedient to Jesus, for to disobey is sin, and unrepented sin results in death.

Nita


#13

This is my personal belief (not any official Church teaching) but I believe that all that is necessary for salvation is to love God, to love He Who is Love Itself. You asked for Biblical backing: Jesus said, “If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.” (Matthew 19:17) Jesus also said that the greatest commandment was to love God (Mattthew 22:37)

The state of being saved is the state of having sanctifying grace in your soul which corresponds with having charity (love) in your soul. Thus all those who love God, who love Love, have love in their soul and are saved. If one truly loves God, he will seek Him and His ways with all his heart. One does not need to be a Christian to be saved since one might love God and not be a Christian – someone might love Him and sincerely seek Him and His ways but due to the circumstances of life not come to faith.

How could God condemn someone who loves Him? It is not possible, regardless of their particular faith. Jesus identifies those who are condemned as those who do not have the “love of God” in their hearts (John 5:42)

I also believe that all will be saved, eventually at least. God is Love Itself (1 John 4:8, 1 John 4:16). God cannot but help love all all the time, even Satan. If there’s a way to rescue someone from hell, God will surely, being Love Itself, rescue him. And surely there is a way to rescue people from Hell since God is all powerful Love; love conquers all. As scripture says, one day God will be “All in all”


#14

Consider that when God is “All in all” in a person who hates and can’t stand being with Him, it will be “hell” for him. If the “All in all” presence is eternal, then hell will be eternal.
“Our God is a consuming fire” (Deut 4:24; Heb 12:29) Perhaps it is God’s continual presence, consuming all the hate that comes out of the person, that is a large part of hell.

Since it is the created being (angel or man) who reject’s God, it is they who condemn themselves, choose hell. Could God take away their free will so they could no longer choose to hate Him and reject His love? If He did, they would no longer be angels or humans, since intellect and free will are one of the defining characteristics of these beings. If God were to take them away He would be changing us from humans into animals.

Nita


#15

I think you are right on, Nita. Where the Sola Fide’s run aground is picking out certain scriptures, and essentially ignoring the others. For example, in the Great Commission:

Matt 28:17-20
18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.”

jesus did not say “go therefore and tell everyone that they need to invite me into their heart as their personal lord and saviour, using the sinners prayer”… He said make disciples, baptize, and observe all that is commanded (obedience).

John 3:36
36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him."

Saving faith is obedient faith.


#16

“All in all” speaks of God’s glory being everywhere. Heaven is where God’s glory is maximally present.

Since it is the created being (angel or man) who reject’s God, it is they who condemn themselves, choose hell. Could God take away their free will so they could no longer choose to hate Him and reject His love? If He did, they would no longer be angels or humans, since intellect and free will are one of the defining characteristics of these beings. If God were to take them away He would be changing us from humans into animals.

Nita

Could there be a creature where no matter what God does, the creature continues indefinitely to reject Him? I don’t think so. God is all-powerful love. There used to be an article online quoting St Teresa Benedicta of the Cross (Edith Stein) on this matter, but I can’t find it. I did however find this from Avery Cardinal Dulles, SJ:

“At one point in his book Balthasar incorporates a long quotation from Edith Stein, now Saint Teresa Benedicta of the Cross, who defends a position very like Balthasar’s. Since God’s all-merciful love, she says, descends upon everyone, it is probable that this love produces transforming effects in their lives. To the extent that people open themselves to that love, they enter into the realm of redemption. On this ground Stein finds it possible to hope that God’s omnipotent love finds ways of, so to speak, outwitting human resistance. Balthasar says that he agrees with Stein.”

firstthings.com/article.php3?id_article=488

God can soften the heart of even the most hardened sinner – including those sinners in Hell. To say otherwise denies that God is omnipotent love :slight_smile:


#17

It is not denying God’s omnipotent love; it is saying He chooses not to exercise it to the degree of controlling or forcing our human will. Saying someone “won’t” is not the same as saying they “can’t”.

Jesus spoke very often to warn us of hell, telling us of it’s eternal anguish. If there were no such place, why would He say there was? If it is only a temporary place, why would He call it eternal?

If we accept Jesus’ words that such a place exists but hold that there is no-one in it, the question immediately rises as to why God would create such a miserable place for no purpose.

Nita


#18

Maybe it’s like an eternal sentence that can be pardoned. Or, maybe the translation of the Greek is not correct. Some say the Greek word should be translated unto the age of ages instead of eternal. Read this (I haven’t read it yet but it seems relevant and good):

tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html


#19

Romans 4:3 Äbraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.
Romans 4:2 If in fact Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about-but not before God.

I think I’m looking for what Abraham received from God, justification. And it seems that according to God’s word all I need to do is believe God. I know that’s not the end of my walk with God, because the Bible teaches that faith without works is dead. Sequentally, faith comes first, along with justification, and then come the works. It seems as though many of the posts here put works before justification. In other words, we need to earn our justification. Abraham was justified by believing in God.

God Bless,
Robert


#20

The Catholic Church expressly denies that we can merit the grace of justification as you appear to be talking about it. It is an undeserved gift. Justification has been merited for us by Christ.

After someone is justified, then there are “good works”. You seem to be talking about when a person first gets saved though, and specifically not down the road after that.

1992 Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ who offered himself on the cross as a living victim, holy and pleasing to God, and whose blood has become the instrument of atonement for the sins of all men…

2010 Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion…

Some CCC snips.

To get a fuller picture. Read the entire sections surrounding those snips from the CCC.


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