Okay another argument with my brother, we are now at it about the subject of salvation through ignorance. I believe the catholic positions is that if some one lives by the morality embeded in his/her heart by the creator, but lives in complete ignorance of the salvation of christ and his graces, then God will grant him/her mercy, protestants don’t see it that way. If such a notion is not in the bible then it’s rubbish, hence to him anyone who does not come to christ will go to hell, period. In his views this is what is supposed to motivate christians to out reach, of course there are several problems no human could know every single person, there are a few that would go unpreached and what about at the moment after christs death, what about other cultures at that time, there is no way chrisitans could have just spread to everyone else with being that small, and with the duty of setting up the kingdom first and formost, (there were protestant ideals back then in the first place). But I cannot hammer this into him because if it is in the bible that those who do not recieve christ no matter what will go to hell to him, even old ladies who live utterly moral lives and are in complete ignorance of grace. How can I hit this home with him???
[quote=Valtiel]But I cannot hammer this into him because if it is in the bible that those who do not recieve christ no matter what will go to hell to him, even old ladies who live utterly moral lives and are in complete ignorance of grace. How can I hit this home with him???
It IS in the Bible. It’s also in the Catechism of the Catholic Church at paragraphs 847-848 and 1260-1261.
The place to start with him is with “all have sinned and fallen short.” Probably, he makes an exception for children below the so-called age of reason (whenever that may be…). He’ll try to justify his position with the passages saying “suffer not the children to come to me” (Lk 18:16) and “unless you become like little children you can not enter heaven” (Mt 18:3). The flaw in this reasoning is that neither verse actually supports the salvation/age-of-reason exception.
The response is to have him show you the (non-existent) passage that says “children under the age of 8 are automatically saved, but those older must accept Christ.” So, if he makes an exception for some, based on innocent ignorance and an arbitrary age that can not be defined, how does he justify denying that exception to others?
Much is expected of those who have full access to God’s word. But only a little is expected of those who have limited knowledge or ability. In this parable, Jesus relates that the least talented and knowledgeable servant was only expected to produce a tiny return to enjoy his master’s full joy.
Mt 25:14-30 For it will be as when a man going on a journey called his servants and entrusted to them his property; to one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability. Then he went away. He who had received the five talents went at once and traded with them; and he made five talents more. So also, he who had the two talents made two talents more. But he who had received the one talent went and dug in the ground and hid his master’s money. Now after a long time the master of those servants came and settled accounts with them. And he who had received the five talents came forward, bringing five talents more, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me five talents; here I have made five talents more.’ His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a little, I will set you over much; enter into the joy of your master.’ And he also who had the two talents came forward, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me two talents; here I have made two talents more.’ His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a little, I will set you over much; enter into the joy of your master.’ He also who had received the one talent came forward, saying, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you did not winnow; so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here you have what is yours.’ But his master answered him, ‘You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sowed, and gather where I have not winnowed? Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. So take the talent from him, and give it to him who has the ten talents. For to every one who has will more be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away. And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness; there men will weep and gnash their teeth.’