Alot of claims are out there: the CC owns a german pornographic magazine fabric, black masses celebrated inside the Vatican (google Paul VI), covered sexual abuses decades ago, orgies in the Vatican by Middle Ages Popes, New Testement invented by Innocent XI, etc. Most affirmed by historians, priests (Fr.Martin as example), bishops (Milingo as example), the press and vatileaks website. I dont know if its the media that doesnt show but it seems that nobody does anything to prove wrong or to correct (although i’ve seen more action to investigate sexual abuses)… so WHATS GOING ON with us???
The Catholic Church is perfect. Catholics are not.
How about, let’s go back to the very beginning…
Most of the flock abandoned Our Lord when told them that they would have to believe and partake in the Eucharist to have eternal life.
The Pope and his bishops (aka Peter and the Apostles) abandon the Lord or fall asleep in the Garden while he agonizes over his betrayal, death and the sins of the world.
The Pope (Peter) violently cuts off the ear of one of the guards.
A bishop (the Apostle Judas) sells out our Lord for thirty pieces of silver.
That bishop (the Apostle Judas) kills himself.
Pope Peter denies knowing Jesus three times.
Another bishop (the Apostle, St. Thomas) refuses to accept the the Resurrection until he can stick his finger in the Lord’s wounds.
Yeah. Those are really great believers. Fine examples to Christians everywhere. I would think that betraying God, selling Him out to his torturerers and executioners, denying the Eucharist and refusing to take Him at His word about the Resurrection are far worse sins than anything you list.
Maybe if we trusted Our Lord and understood that the Church is a divine institution that was created to improve flawed human beings and bring them to salvation, we’d wouldn’t make statements like yours.
I agree. It is the people who are in the church that are sinners. Not the church itself. As someone else said the apostles themselves were not perfect and none of us Catholics are either. Plus these sins are everywhere, in all of society and all churches.
I, also think that media and those who choose to report these things sometimes make them bigger than what they are, meaning that the good that comes from the Catholic church way far outweighs these things and they could do much better good by telling about the good priests and bishops and laity and the good they and the Catholic church do.
What may or may not go on inside the Vatican walls concerns me less than the messages that are being taught to us. We Catholics know that the teachings of our faith are right and just, therefore any immoral actions done by individuals do not scare me. It would only be if I started to hear church officials make claims such as “pornography isn’t as bad as we thought”, or “a Black Mass has its own unique beauty to it” that I would be worried.
And even if there *were *proof to these claims (doubtful, since you *know *the anti-Catholic media would be all over it!), it would just be a wake-up call for all of we faithful Catholics to clean house.
I’ve heard it said that Satan leaves the world pretty ;much alone because it’s already headed for hell; but, he’s usually very busy in the churches and pews and wherever “those believers” are, that we really do need to be watchful and not just with the laity. After all, the clergy is made up of finite beings too. The one way we all can help and be watchful is to continually PRAY for the Church and especially those who have been given special gifts of teaching and preaching and overseeing…:getholy::gopray2:
To avoid repeating what has been said all I will say is that what goes on inside the vatican is not as bad as many of the Churches detractors claim, or at least not as widespread. But much worse than we would like it. Certainly there have been wolves inside the walls of the vatican just as there was a wolf in the 12 aposltes and all of them except John sinned greatly by abandoning Christ at the cross. But the media and anti-catholics greatly exagerate many things as well and come up with elaborate conspiracies as well. God will judge those who are to do his will as to wether they have been faithful or not. Luke 12 v 35-48 gives us a good perspective of the accounting for those who do not remain faithful to him that are in leadershp positions. It is interesting that this passage is in response to a question asked by Peter.
We are all sinners. We all have skeltons in our closet and God’s mercy is bigger than our sins if we let it be.
New Testement invented by Innocent XI
Can you cite a source for these claims?
If you’re getting that all from the VatiLeaks website, that site looks totally suspect to me. A lot of that looks like it’s just made up by people who only want to subvert (yes people like that are out there). It’s like Dale from King of the Hill, people who make claims without anything to back it up or much critical thinking.
Don’t confuse that website with the VatiLeaks scandal that has been in the news. The VatiLeaks scandal is about real internal Vatican memos. That VatiLeaks website claims to publish “unknown and suppressed information that has been hidden” – it doesn’t give much in terms of real sources or real critical thought. All it wants to do is sling mud. It looks like they’re just using the VatiLeaks name to get publicity. Big difference.
The VatiLeaks scandal pertains to current, non-mystical events (unlike the rubbish on that VatiLeaks website). It doesn’t have anything to do with most of the stuff on that sham VatiLeaks website. It doesn’t have anything to do with the supposed fake gospel forged by a pope from centuries ago. It pertains to current events.
That’s why it’s published on the internet instead of in any books by reputable publishers – nobody educated takes them seriously.
Milingo is a questionable source, seeing as how he is a cultmember. He is no longer a real Catholic, no longer a bishop, and his leader is Sung Myung Moon who claims to be God (the wikipedia page on Moon used to talk about that but I think cultmembers have been editing it).
About Paul VI, yes he did say something about the smoke of satan entering the Vatican, but check this out catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=58473
Yes there are areas in the Church where we need to improve, things that are real problems. But the problems from that site are largely made up. It’s something that there is a ton of on the internet, and it’s irritating when silly people make stuff up and serious people have to work hard to disprove the lie. Then in turn the silly people just make up more stuff while the serious people work hard again to disprove the lie. It’s totally unfair, because the liars don’t work hard to make up their lies while the serious people have to labour really hard to prove it wrong, and it’s a total waste because they just come up with more lies.