Satanists plan statue to stand alongside Ten Commandments in Oklahoma


#1

theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/08/satan-ten-commandments-oklahoma-city

In their zeal to tout their faith in the public square, conservatives in Oklahoma may have unwittingly opened the door to a wide range of religious groups, including Satanists who are seeking to put their own statue next to a Ten Commandments monument outside the statehouse.

The Republican-controlled legislature in the state known as the buckle of the Bible Belt authorised the privately funded Ten Commandments monument in 2009. It was placed on the Capitol grounds last year despite criticism from legal experts, who questioned its constitutionality. The Oklahoma chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union has filed a lawsuit seeking its removal.

But the New York-based Satanic Temple saw an opportunity. It notified the state’s Capitol Preservation Commission that it wants to donate a monument and plans to submit one of several possible designs this month, said Lucien Greaves, a spokesman for the temple.

“We believe that all monuments should be in good taste and consistent with community standards,” Greaves wrote in letter to state officials. “Our proposed monument, as an homage to the historic/literary Satan, will certainly abide by these guidelines.”

Greaves said one potential design involves a pentagram, a satanic symbol, while another is meant to be an interactive display for children. He said he expects the monument, if approved by Oklahoma officials, would cost about $20,000.

The Republican state representative Mike Ritze, who spearheaded the push for the Ten Commandments monument and whose family helped pay the $10,000 for its construction, declined to comment on the Satanic Temple’s effort, but Greaves credited Ritze for opening the door to his group’s proposal.

“He’s helping a satanic agenda grow more than any of us possibly could,” Greaves said. “You don’t walk around and see too many satanic temples around, but when you open the door to public spaces for us, that’s when you’re going to see us.”

The Oklahoma legislature has taken other steps that many believe blur the line that divides church and state. The House speaker said he wants to build a chapel inside the Capitol to celebrate Oklahoma’s “Judeo-Christian heritage”. Several lawmakers have said they want to allow nativity scenes and other religious-themed symbols in public schools.

The Republican representative Bobby Cleveland, who plans to introduce one such bill next year, said many Christians feel they are under attack as a result of political correctness. He dismissed the notion of Satanists erecting a monument at the Capitol.

“I think these Satanists are a different group,” Cleveland said. “You put them under the nut category.”

Brady Henderson, the legal director for ACLU Oklahoma, said if state officials allow one type of religious expression, they must allow alternative forms of expression, although he said a better solution might be to allow none at all on state property.

“We would prefer to see Oklahoma’s government officials work to faithfully serve our communities and improve the lives of Oklahomans instead of erecting granite monuments to show us all how righteous they are,” Henderson said. “But if the Ten Commandments, with its overtly Christian message, is allowed to stay at the Capitol, the Satanic Temple’s proposed monument cannot be rejected because of its different religious viewpoint.”

How has the world degraded so quickly into something like this? A statue to satan? :bighanky:

Hail Mary,
Full of Grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of death.
Amen.


#2

On the bright side, now satanic bakers will be forced to bake wedding cakes for heterosexual couples.


#3

Also on the bright side, a statue of one of the Adversary’s chief minions was just pulled down and reduced to rubble in the Ukraine, and a priest (not sure if Roman Catholic or Orthodox) helped smash it to rubble:

Once the statue was down, men took turns smashing it with the sledgehammer. Onlookers chanted, “Glory to Ukraine!” and cheered the hammerers with cries of “Good job, guys!” as they shielded their faces from flying splinters of stone. One of the hammerers wore his hair in a Mohawk; another was a priest in black vestments. The protesters mounted a Ukrainian flag on the empty pedestal.

nytimes.com/2013/12/09/world/europe/kiev-teems-with-pro-europe-protesters-as-thousands-more-gather.html?_r=0

news.yahoo.com/ukraine-opposition-plans-biggest-protest-since-2004-022757930.html


#4

Im willing to bet they wont have any problems with their tax exempt status applications.


#5

I was wondering when they would stop hiding and come out into the open in today’s society. We have become so relativistic and irrational that evil worshippers can be seen as harmless :banghead:

God Bless


#6

The Satanic Temple is a PR stunt. It doesn’t worship the Satan of Christianity, but is basically an atheistic satire of religion.

Lucien Greaves is also named Doug Mesner. Quoting from an interview with Vice magazine, published earlier this year:

VICE: Is the Satanic Temple a satanic, or a satirical group?

**Doug: **That is a common question. I say why can’t it be both? We are coming from a solid philosophy that we absolutely believe in and adhere to. This is Satanism, and to us it couldn’t be called anything other than Satanism. However, our metaphor of Satan is a literary construct inspired by authors such as Anatole France and Milton—a rebel angel defiant of autocratic structure and concerned with the material world. Satanism as a rejection of superstitious supernaturalism. This Satan, of course, bears no resemblance to the embodiment of all cruelty, suffering, and negativity believed in by some apocalyptic segments of Judeo-Christian culture. The word Satan has no inherent value. If one acts with compassion in the name of Satan, one has still acted with compassion. Our very presence as civic-minded socially responsible Satanists serves to satirize the ludicrous superstitious fears that the word Satan tends to evoke.

**VICE:**Can you give me a bit of background information on the temple? Do you consider yourselves activists?

**Doug: **The Satanic Temple was actually conceived of independent from me by a friend and one of his colleagues. They envisioned it more as a “poison pill” in the Church/State debate. The idea was that Satanists, asserting their rights and privileges where religious agendas have been successful in imposing themselves upon public affairs, could serve as a poignant reminder that such privileges are for everybody, and can be used to serve an agenda beyond the current narrow understanding of what “the” religious agenda is.
vice.com/read/unmasking-lucien-greaves-aka-doug-mesner-leader-of-the-satanic-temple

The new Oklahoma law is exactly the sort of thing which the Satanic Temple was created for.


#7

In Kiev, where they still remember life under communism, statues of Lenin are being torn down.

In Fremont, Washington - home of “neo-pagan” liberal/leftists who have no clue as to what life under communism means, and who take their freedoms for granted - they have erected a statue of Lenin.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Lenin_(Seattle

Ishii


#8

Coatimundi has the right idea, I’ve known a few Satanists, and they’re doing this for a lark.

Most are devoutly atheist and will find the idea of a religious monument to their non-religion hilarious.


#9

I object because the Satanists are taking a Christian, and not a Jewish, perspective of Satan, which makes THEIR statue an affront to Judaism!


#10

I have to chuckle at this. :rolleyes:

But it is a well said satire. :thumbsup:


#11

We see here that the ACLU-style of separation of Church and State are really problematic. There will always be a fluid definition of what a “Church” is. Can one just make something up out of the blue, ala Scientology? Is it a religion just to oppose another religion? I mean, I think the time for theocracy is past, but secularization of government is never going to be something that is any more that an ideal and a principle, not something black and white. The balance of the rights of a handful of individual is the will of the majority, and visa versa.


#12

This is an excellent point. Threads like this always make me think of those pranksters who claim that their religion is “Jedi Knight”. :smiley: :thumbsup:

Is it a religion just to oppose another religion? I mean, I think the time for theocracy is past, but secularization of government is never going to be something that is any more that an ideal and a principle, not something black and white. The balance of the rights of a handful of individual is the will of the majority, and visa versa.

True.

I think these “Satanists” are indulging in an elaborate reductio ad absurdam at the expense of pure secularism. :slight_smile:


#13

This is a group from NYC trying to put up a monument in Oklahoma. The other statue was put up by people from Oklahoma.

Just like that small conservative town in northern Florida that put up a statue of the Ten Commandments. An national atheist group insisted on putting up an atheist statue in the same area. Good luck keeping it there unscathed.

Stupidity and people with too much money trying to make some point in a place they would never live. It makes no sense.

Probably best to just let them win and move the original statues to private property. The Ten Commandments one in Oklahoma has misspellings apparently anyway.


#14

But, but,but Hollywood has bee assuring us for decades that these devil folk don’t exist!:wink:


#15

This thread is funny.


#16

Wait, so there are people who actually call themselves Satanists? Aren’t they just confirming the existence of God by siding with the ‘other side’? So, why would they be able to object to a Christian symbol if they are anti-Christians themselves? If they have an issue with the monument, they should have given their input when the original one was designed because they aren’t a separate religion. Not that anyone would have listened, but the religion they claim is already represented, just not in their twisted way.


#17

This one would work well next to the 10 Comandments. For us it’ll be a warning, for the satanists it’ll be a promise.


#18

I agree! :smiley:


#19

They’re not objecting (they made no demands the Christian monument be covered/removed), they’re taking advantage of a legal situation to put their own monument down.

I get the joke they’re trying to make, and a monument to atheism (what Satanists are) IS funny.


#20

At first I thought it was funny also.Then I thought about it some more and wonder why we Catholics are so complacent when others mock our Faith?

Do you think it would be funny to put a statue of David Duke next to one of Martin Luther King?


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