I saw this story too, jakasaki. This just makes me so sad - this poor girl. What really irritated me was the part you bolded as part of the “husband’s” response. Where was the girl’s acceptance of this marriage? According to Muslim Woman no girl is to be coerced into marriage.
Although, the last part of what you posted indicates that this is a violation of child rights. I would be interested to see a detailed explanation of why the father did this to his daughter and what “rights” children have there. :shrug:
I’d also be interested to see if there are any protests/demonstrations in defense of this girl by other Muslims declaring that this is not true Islam.
For a marriage to be valid certain conditions must be met.
**1) consent of both parties. **
2) " Mahr" a gift from the groom to his bride.
Witnesses- 2 male or female.
The marriage should be publicized, it should never be kept secret as it leads to suspicion and troubles within the community.
There is a halal arranged marriage and a haram one. It is OK to arrange marriages by suggestion and recommendation as long as both parties are agreeable.
**The other arranged marriage which is haram is when parents choose the future spouse and the couple concerned are forced or have no choice in the matter. **
One of the conditions of a valid marriage is consent of the couple.
Marriage by definition is a voluntary union of two people.
The choice of a partner by a Muslim virgin girl is subject to the approval of the father or guardian under Maliki school. This is to safeguard her welfare and interests.
The prophet said "the widow and the divorced woman shall not be married until she has consented and the virgin shall not be married until her consent is obtained.
**The prophet did revoke the marriage of a girl who complained to him that her father had married her against her wishes. **
“Khansa bint Khidhan who had a previous marriage, related that when her father married her and she disapproved of that, she went to the Messenger of God and he revoked her marriage.” (Bukhari, Ibn Majah)
“A [girl who was not married] came to the Messenger of God and mentioned that her father had married her against her will, so the Prophet allowed her to exercise her choice.” (Abu Da’ud, on the authority of Ibn 'Abbas)
Well, there are a few problems with calling the man a pedophile because he had one very young wife. There are cultural differences…and there is the probable fact that a true pedophile would have a: had relationships with other children, and he did not, and b: had sex with Aisha when they were married (she was six.) He didn’t. He waited for three years, (ostensibly until she had her menses, which would, in our culture, make him creepy, but not a pedophile).
Y’know, I am neither Muslim nor do I agree with much of Islam. But the truth of it is sufficient; we don’t have to get nutty.
So…if a man has sex with a 10-year old, he can get away with it because he hasn’t had sex with other children? So all those men who are caught by Chris Hanson and say “This is my first time” really do have a valid excuse then? I don’t fully understand the logic behind that at all. It’s sort of like saying a man who forces himself physically on a woman isn’t a rapist unless he’s raped a couple other women. There’s legally and morally no permitted limit on having sex with children and being a pedophile - we’re not talking about hunting deer.
a pedophile is a person who has a sexual preference for preadolescent children. Mohammad married Aisha when she was six. He didn’t consummate the marriage until she was nine, and whether you like the idea or not, if he were a classic pedophile, he wouldn’t have waited that long. The odds are that he waited until her first period, and that made her, in that culture at that time, able to have sex with her husband.
If he were in THIS culture, TODAY, I would agree with you one hundred percent. In fact, his actions for that time have an eww factor that I’m not comfortable with. However, he wasn’t a pedophile.
You need to stop judging people of other ages by the standards of this one.
One other thing: simply because I will not use inaccurate terminology, or accuse someone of something he is NOT guilty of, that does not mean that I am supporting his belief system or his ideals. It simply means that I believe the truth of any belief system is sufficient to discredit it, if it is false. If someone has to lie, exaggerate or misrepresent it in order to defeat it, that raises a HUGE red flag for me.
In other words, bub, lay off. By wasting time on this, you are providing Muslims with ammunition to say 'they are lying about us!!!" and NOT examining the beliefs they truly hold. What, are you afraid that there might actually be something to them that would catch the unwary eye? Are you afraid that the truth won’t do the job?
I’m sorry. This sort of thing drives me* nuts**. *
Yes, Arabnews is a local Saudi newspaper for English speakers here in SA, so their sources should be authentic, however, here is an Arabic one.
Because its in the Islamic dogma, it encourages such thing, read the chapter name of the following hadith and you would understand why:
**Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3309, **Chapter 10: IT IS PERMISSIBLE FOR THE FATHER TO GIVE THE HAND OF HIS DAUGHTER IN MARRIAGE EVEN WHEN SHE IS NOT FULLY GROWN UP:
"'A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine. She further said: We went to Medina and I had an attack of fever for a month, and my hair had come down to the earlobes. Umm Ruman (my mother) came to me and I was at that time on a swing along with my playmates. She called me loudly and I went to her and I did not know what she had wanted of me. She took hold of my hand and took me to the door, and I was saying: Ha, ha (as if I was gasping), until the agitation of my heart was over. She took me to a house, where had gathered the women of the Ansar. They all blessed me and wished me good luck and said: May you have share in good. She (my mother) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and embellished me and nothing frightened me. Allah’s Messenger (, may peace be upon him) came there in the morning, and I was entrusted to him."
[RIGHT]صحيح مسلم - النكاح - تزويج الأب البكر الصغيرة:
تزوجني رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم لست سنين وبنى بي وأنا بنت تسع سنين قالت فقدمنا المدينة فوعكت شهرا فوفى شعري جميمة فأتتني أم رومان وأنا على أرجوحة ومعي صواحبي فصرخت بي فأتيتها وما أدري ما تريد بي فأخذت بيدي فأوقفتني على الباب فقلت هه هه حتى ذهب نفسي فأدخلتني بيتا فإذا نسوة من الأنصار فقلن على الخير والبركة وعلى خير طائر فأسلمتني إليهن فغسلن رأسي وأصلحنني فلم يرعني إلا ورسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ضحى فأسلمنني إليه
Again, there’s no “limitation” to the number of minors you have sex with. For example, the kidnapped girl in California and the man who had sex with her when she was obviously a teenager: let’s say the guy only had sex with her and she was the only child he did…that would still make him a pedophile. Having sex with one minor still makes one a pedophile. Or, to use another example, in many Muslim parts of the world (such as Afghanistan) it is common for older men to take in younger boys for the purposes of sexual relations. Even a monogamous relationship between an older man with someone of a very, very young age still counts as pedophilia.
Now, it is true Mohammad waited for a certain point, but this doesn’t hide several things: 1) he married a young girl based on a dream - you can’t base things off of that, especially when it’s only one person having this dream and no one can confirm it; 2) supposedly waiting until puberty does not make it any more right (especially since I’ve never seen a Muslim present any hadith sources that confirm Aisha was on her period by then). Even some pedophiles prefer teenagers over toddlers, but this does not make their tendencies forgivable. Especially for a man in old age with a plethora of wives who takes a child as a bride because supposedly God told him to in a dream.
Ah, in that case, should we not condemn the people who committed the Spanish Inquisition? After all, that was normal for the time period. Should we not condemn ancient rulers who slaughtered whole cities, prisoners of war, and other innocents, simply because it was normal for that age? Should we ignore the problems caused by European imperialism simply because it was normal and accepted for that time period?
The fact is we hold people of all ages by certain standards because, as Christians, we have Divine Truth as our guide, and that Truth is the same now, tomorrow and forever (Hebrews 13:8). There is no expiration date on Truth.
Ad hominem aside, no one is accusing any one of “lying,” only stating things the way they are.
I can’t believe I’m in this position, frankly. I personally think that what Mohammad did with Aisha is…icky is a pretty good word. Certainly in today’s culture, any man who did what he did WOULD be a pedophile. But this is here, and now, not there and then. It doesn’t matter HOW horrific we see the act, or how horrific it would be in our culture; we have to judge by the standards of that culture, and where/when it happened.
Here’s the thing: I firmly believe that Islam is wrong…but trying to discredit it by claiming that Mohammad was a pedophile is counterproductive. At best it wastes time. At worst, if Islam is as horrific as you claim, it’s like criticizing a company that poisons it’s food products for using the wrong font on the package wrappers.
And in some cultures it is permissible, whether secretly or openly, for an older man to have a younger boy for sexual relations. That does not make it right. See my previous post for a response to that.
You know, a man who is attracted to teens or pubescent girls is not, technically, a pedophile. Biologically speaking, it’s normal and not terribly unusual for men to be attracted to girls in this stage of life. We don’t believe grown men should have sexual relationships with girls of that age for a number of reasons, such as their immaturity, inability to legally consent, etc. But it isn’t weird for a man to think a 14 year old is physically attractive. They use their will and judgement so as not to act on it if they are.
Being attracted to pre-pubescent girls is NOT normal, and that is what pedophilia is.
Many cultures have seen the onset of menses as the appropriate time for a girl to marry, as it signals the beginning of puberty. 9 is young for that, but not at all unheard of. Girls by that age in earlier cultures were doing the jobs of adult women.
As well, people should remember that the Christian West also has allowed marriage at much earlier ages in the past - at the same time it went on in Islamic nations. Among aristocracy, child betrothals - which was essentially a marriage but before there was consummation, were very common. No one sought consent from the little girls or boys, who sometimes were infants. And the actual marriage was consumated usually as soon as the menses began. They were expected to do what their parents told them. Even as recently as the 19th century it was not unheard of for a girl of 13 to marry an older man.
As for the original article - it seems to me that she is in an unfortunate position of people not looking carefully after her welfare. It is hard to say if they are just clueless, or actually using her with no regard for her needs.
His example was good for the 7th century Arabs and it is good also for the humanity living now at the beginning of this 21st century. He is an excellent example for the rich and poor, for young and old, for rulers and ruled, for the most intelligent as well as the most common people. Allah sent him as His Prophet for all humanity. Allah says in the Qur’an: (Say: ‘O people! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah, to Whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth: there is no god but He: it is He that gives both life and death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, who believed in Allah and His Words: follow him that (so) you may be guided.) (Al-A`raf 7: 158) islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503545368 (emphasis mine)