Saved forever? (Extra characters)


#1

I had a good natured argument with a group of Protestant/nondenominational people I talk to (until they started saying things like hail you know who and I asked them to stop and they made fun of me for being afraid of demons because and I quote, “if your God is so good why doesn’t he protect you from that stuff?”) (I haven’t hung out with them since) anyway we were talking about if your salvation is eternal and I’m like, “if you kill someone and you’re not sorry and never repent you’re gonna go to hell”. And they got offended and said “no because salvation is eternal sure you’ll have to own up but you won’t go to hell once save always saved ITS IN THE BIBLE” can someone tell me who’s correct here, and if that is in the Bible please show me?

And also all sin is apparently the exact same, like stealing a pen or a white lie is the same as premeditated murder? (But you’re still not damned to hell because Jesus loves you and you can do no wrong) I tried to explain mortal sin and venial sin but those darn first west southern 32nd division semi free will baptists are right and I’m totally horribly wrong :roll_eyes: (I made that denomination up I was being very sarcastic, in case anyone didn’t get it) I tried to be nice but after that mess I left


#2

I love it when people say “sin is sin”, because the Bible itself makes a distinction. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+John+5%3A16-17&version=RSVCE


#3

That literally just made my day mwahahaha even Protestant Bibles say that verse :sunglasses: Catholics-1 everyone else- 0.00000001 for effort


#4

Council of Trent, Session Six
CANON XVI.-If any one saith, that he will for certain, of an absolute and infallible certainty, have that great gift of perseverance unto the end,-unless he have learned this by special revelation; let him be anathema.


#5

Instead of framing the discussion around “being saved” versus “not being saved,” frame it as a spectrum. The Bible doesn’t talk about salvation being a binary permanent change. It speaks about it on a spectrum.

So again, think about what it means to be justified before God and how God justifies us by cleansing us of sin.

Protestants are obsessed with going to heaven, so the second you suggest that their sin actually damages their relationship with God in a very real way they are bound to get emotional.

Praying for you and the group you’re interacting with :smiley:


#6

I speak as a former Evangelical Protestant btw.


#7

These are valuable Protestant theological documents you should show to your friends.

From the Westminster Shorter Catechism (it’s Reformed/Calvinist):

Q. 82. Is any man able perfectly to keep the commandments of God?
A. No mere man since the fall is able in this life perfectly to keep the commandments of God, but doth daily break them in thought, word and deed.

Q. 83. Are all transgressions of the law equally heinous?
A. Some sins in themselves, and by reason of several aggravations, are more heinous in the sight of God than others.

Q. 84. What doth every sin deserve?
A. Every sin deserveth God’s wrath and curse, both in this life, and that which is to come.

Q. 85. What doth God require of us that we may escape his wrath and curse due to us for sin?
A. To escape the wrath and curse of God due to us for sin, God requireth of us faith in Jesus Christ, repentance unto life, with the diligent use of all the outward means whereby Christ communicateth to us the benefits of redemption.

Q. 86. What is faith in Jesus Christ?
A. Faith in Jesus Christ is a saving grace, whereby we receive and rest upon him alone for salvation, as he is offered to us in the gospel.

Q. 87. What is repentance unto life?
A. Repentance unto life is a saving grace, whereby a sinner, out of a true sense of his sin, and apprehension of the mercy of God in Christ, doth, with grief and hatred of his sin, turn from it unto God, with full purpose of, and endeavor after, new obedience.

http://www.opc.org/sc.html


#8

I like what someone on CAF once wrote. It’s better if it was If saved Always saved. I hate the phrase OSAS because it doesn’t capture the fullness of what Perseverance of the Saints teaches. It often distorts it. Backsliding may occur (indicated below) but it doesn’t negate the perseverance part. True repentance (and only God can see) occurs if the Christian sins. A truly saved individual isn’t going to be cavalier about sins that the Christian committed. He or she will be wracked with guilt.
This is what a good way of understanding salvation from a Reformed view:

Chapter XIII.
Of Sanctification.

I. They who are once effectually called and regenerated, having a new heart and a new spirit created in them, are further sanctified, really and personally, through the virtue of Christ’s death and resurrection,(a) by His Word and Spirit dwelling in them:(b) the dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed,© and the several lusts thereof are more and more weakened and mortified;(d) and they more and more quickened and strengthened in all saving graces,(e) to the practice of true holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.(f)

(a) I Cor. 6:11; Acts 20:32; Phil. 3:10; Rom. 6:5, 6.
(b) John 17:17; Eph. 5:26; II Thess. 2:13.
© Rom. 6:6, 14.
(d) Gal. 5:24; Rom. 8:13.
(e) Col. 1:11; Eph. 3:16, 17, 18, 19.
(f) II Cor. 7:1; Heb. 12:14.

II. This sanctification is throughout, in the whole man;(g) yet imperfect in this life, there abiding still some remnants of corruption in every part:(h) whence ariseth a continual and irreconcilable war; the flesh lusting against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh.(i)

(g) I Thess. 5:23.
(h) I John 1:10; Rom. 7:18, 23; Phil. 3:12.
(i) Gal. 5:17; I Pet. 2:11.

III. In which war, although the remaining corruption, for a time, may much prevail;(k) yet through the continual supply of strength from the sanctifying Spirit of Christ, the regenerate part doth overcome;(l) and so, the saints grow in grace,(m) perfecting holiness in the fear of God.(n)

(k) Rom. 7:23.
(l) Rom. 6:14; I John 5:4; Eph. 4:15, 16.
(m) II Pet. 3:18; II Cor. 3:18.
(n) II Cor. 7:1.


#9

Did you ask them where it is in the Bible?

Also, did you notice that you made the stipulation that “you are not sorry and never repent” and they responded with “sure you’ll have to own up”?

You need to catch this and point this out. You guys are talking apples and oranges here. You are using the same words “saved forever” but you are both defending different definitions of those words.

If you feel a need to continue in this dialogue with them, I would recommend you ask them more questions instead of trying to prove them wrong. You can’t prove them wrong because they do not define terms the same way that you do.

Hope this helps,

God Bless


#11

we have no idea of knowing this, its a silly question to ask imho . who would know. we will, once we die. Judas might have had tons of contrition and be pardoned as he was dying.


#13

yes, I think he showed a lot of remorse too.
I wonder how protestants process it.
Do protestants believe in hell? I know they don’t have purgatory


#15

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