Scapular is heretical


#1

the pamphlet I have from the Fatima Center on the brown scapular states this for its opening sentence: “It is an assurance of salvattion.”

WHAT?! How is the scapular approved by the Church with that kind of heresy attached to it? Assurance of salvation clearly contradicts Church teaching.

I know someone will answer with “well, anyone who wears the scapular is already someone who does the necessary things to be saved in the end” yadda yadda. But the fact is, Mary is quoted as saying, "whoever dies clothed in this shall not suffer eternal fire."
there is no further explanation. That means a person can be in mortal sin when they die, but they put the scapular on just bgefore they die, and BOOM! theyre in heaven! nonsense . . .


#2

Hi UK Catholic guy,

I’ve actually wondered the same thing. I had such a problem with it that I talked to my Priest and he said it was one of those “optional” Catholic beliefs so I decided it’s soooooooooo not for me. I’m curious to hear what others think… ?


#3

I have a book on the Scapular Under the Vatican approval section it states: in wearing the Scapular at all times we make silent petition for the Blessed Mother’s coninual assistance. We share in all the prayers and good works of the Carmelite Scapular Confraternity throughout the world. Pope Pius XII often spoke of the Scapular. On the 700th anniversary of the appearance of Our Lady to St. Simon Stock, Pope Pius XII referrd to the Scapular as “The Sign of Consecration to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.” The Scapular also represents the sweet yoke of Jesus Christ which Mary helps us to bear. And finally, the Pope continued, the Scapular marks us as one of Mary’s chosen children, and becomes for us (as the Germans call it) a “Garment of Grace”. St. Claude tells us, “Of all the pious practicves which have inspired the Faithful to honor the Mother of God, none is so sure as taht of the Scapular. No other devotion has been confirmed by so many, and such extraordinary miracles.” In 1951, Pope Pius XII told a very large audience to wear the Brown Scapular as a sign of consecration to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Our Lady asked for this consecration in the last apparition at Fatima, when She appeared as Our Lady of Mount Carmel, holding the Brown Scapular out to the whole world.


#4

It was her last moving appeal to souls to wear Her Scapular as a sign of consecration to Her Immaculate Heart. By wearing the Scapular, we are dedicated to Our Blessed Mother in a special way and have a strong claim upon Her portection and intercession.

In the question and answer section of the book it is asked if the Scapular (sacramental it self gives graces)? The answer is no, it is not the sacramental itself that gives grace, but the devotion, the love of God, or sorrow for sin that it inspires. In using the sacrametnals, the more devotion we have, the more grace we recieve.

Maybe this will help.
God Bless, Kerri


#5

The three requirements of recieving the graces would be:

  1. We must Wear the Scapular.
  2. Observe chastity according to our state in life.
  3. Recite the Little Office of Our Blessed Mother (The Rosary or some other pious work can be substituted for the Office of Our Lady.

Our Lady herself has said,“Take this Scapular. Whosoever dies wearing it shall not suffer eternal fire. It shall be a sign of salvation, a protection in danger, and a pledge of peace.”

The Great Promise:
“I will never leave you alone. My Immaculate Heart will be your refuge and the way that will lead you to God.” (Words of Our Lady of Fatima)

God Bless, Kerri


#6

but still, even the fact that Mary can “assure” us of our salvation I think is contradictory to Church teaching. one can never be completely assure of his salvation-- whether by wearing something or by praying. that is the sin of presuming God’s mercy. or that somehow Mary is able to do something God can’t-- she can assure you of salvation, while her powerless Son, on the other hand, cannot. anyone feel the same way? be honest with yourself.


#7

Catholic Guy,

“It is an assurance of salvattion.”

Your whole question doesn’t make sence. It says:

“It is
an
assurance of salvattion.”

So it is not
ASSURANCE
of salvation.

I wear mine and always will!
[left]
John
[/left]


#8

[quote=UKcatholicGuy]but still, even the fact that Mary can “assure” us of our salvation I think is contradictory to Church teaching. one can never be completely assure of his salvation-- whether by wearing something or by praying. that is the sin of presuming God’s mercy. or that somehow Mary is able to do something God can’t-- she can assure you of salvation, while her powerless Son, on the other hand, cannot. anyone feel the same way? be honest with yourself.
[/quote]

Yes. It’s wierd. I feel the same way.


#9

[quote=UKcatholicGuy]but still, even the fact that Mary can “assure” us of our salvation I think is contradictory to Church teaching. one can never be completely assure of his salvation-- whether by wearing something or by praying. that is the sin of presuming God’s mercy. or that somehow Mary is able to do something God can’t-- she can assure you of salvation, while her powerless Son, on the other hand, cannot. anyone feel the same way? be honest with yourself.
[/quote]

Ok you are assured salvation if you live the faith. If you choose to sin mortally and not ask for forgiveness I am sure the graces would no longer be available to you. She did not say if you are in mortal sin and wear this scapular you will still have eternal life. Also She would not be promising it if it was not the Lord’s will. He obviously allowed her to say this. I guess for me I have no problem believeing it. Personally I am glad to have the Blessed Mother on my side. I feel if we are truely devoted to her she will lead us to her Son.

I am not saying that you have to agree with me I am just telling you my opinion. This is what I believe.

God Bless, Kerri


#10

God in his providence knows that if we are in a state of mortal sin or unworthy of eternal life, that somehow we will not die with the scapular on. He will never allow our Blessed Mother’s promises to be empty. Indeed, if God is behind the Scapular (which he is) do you not think that circumstances can be arranged that the scapular will not be on our person when we enter eternity.


#11

[quote=koopster]God in his providence knows that if we are in a state of mortal sin or unworthy of eternal life, that somehow we will not die with the scapular on. He will never allow our Blessed Mother’s promises to be empty. Indeed, if God is behind the Scapular (which he is) do you not think that circumstances can be arranged that the scapular will not be on our person when we enter eternity.
[/quote]

With all due respect, how do you know God is behind the Scapular?


#12

[quote=carol marie]With all due respect, how do you know God is behind the Scapular?
[/quote]

I would suggest that it is because He is behind the mother of our Savior.


#13

The Scapular is an optional devotion. You don’t have to have anything to do with it. Just like you don’t have to believe in Fatima, Guadalupe, or Lourdes.

If it is a hindrance or bothersome to you, stay away from it.

God Bless,

~cleopa


#14

I used to wear a brown scapular, until I found out there was a whole bunch of other stuff you had to do to make it work right.

Then I quit wearing it becuase I wasn’t planning to do all that stuff anyway so I figured there was no point in wearing it just for show.

Two weeks ago, on Good Friday, my house caught on fire. The fire took out almost everything upstairs in my house. The other day I was sorting through the ashes, soot, and destroyed things, and found my brown scapular.

That doesn’t mean anything as far as I know, but I thought it was a cool story.

Alan


#15

Hey all,

I need to apologize. I think I may have jumped the gun on this scapular thing. After talking to people, I realized that the brochure I read from was from the Fatima Center, which is often in trouble with the Church for not-so-sound teachings. It is the wording of their brochure that caused me alarm. However, in the full context of WHAT it means to wear the scapular, I humbly retract my knee-jerk accusation that the scapular is heretical. Please forgive me, fellow posters. Holy Mary, Mother of God, forgive me. Thanks to all who responded and helped me better understand. God bless!


#16

[quote=UKcatholicGuy]God bless!
[/quote]

And God bless you as well. :thumbsup:

I have a great deal of respect for how you handled this whole matter. You are truly a seeker of wisdom and not a empty minded parrot. :nerd:

Truth be told, I am very reluctant to embrace certain devotions that seem to me like spiritual Let’s Make a Deal or something. The other thing that drives me bananas is whenever somebody says that if they do a certain prayer at a certain time in a certain way, they get X days/weeks/years off their purgatory time. Speculative nonsense, it seems to me, but I’ve decided that my opinion is not needed by others. Whatever they wish to do out of faith is fine – just don’t tell me I have to buy into it.

Once I decided that I liked the label “cafeteria Catholic” in an effort to see if I could pander to everyone at the same time – except, of course, hard core traditionalists. :stuck_out_tongue: To people who doubt certain teachings, I can say that I also pick and choose what church teachings I believe. To people who object, I can explain that what I really meant is that Catholicism is a smorgasbord of devotions. :yup:

Like St. Paul, I try to be a chameleon, changing my color to fit the situation. For those who bristle at that, looky what St. Paul wrote:

[quote=1 Cor 9:19-23]Although I am free in regard to all, I have made myself a slave to all so as to win over as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew to win over Jews; to those under the law I became like one under the law–though I myself am not under the law–to win over those under the law. To those outside the law I became like one outside the law–though I am not outside God’s law but within the law of Christ–to win over those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, to win over the weak. I have become all things to all, to save at least some. All this I do for the sake of the gospel, so that I too may have a share in it.

[/quote]

OK, so I’ve migrated topics. See how I am? :smiley:

Alan


#17

Alan,

So sorry about the fire! The pictures look terrible - what a huge mess! Did the smoke damage ruin the rest of your house? No one was hurt I hope !!


#18

I received a brown scapular from my aunt and have worn it often since I received it. On the pamphlet that came with it came the quote “It is an assurance of salvation”. I took this to mean that the assurance is valid if you live your life as a follower of Christ in word and deed, as an extra safeguard. I’m no expert on things like this, but that’s how I just took its meaning. This scapular did not come straight from the Order of Mount Carmel, but something called the “Saint Joseph Scapular Guild” in New Jersey.

I decided to go to the Order of Mount Carmel website and check it out further, and lo and behold, right there on the website explaining the scapular it says, “It is NOT an assurance of salvation”. Funny this came up now, because I was just planning to email the order this week to ask for an explanation for the discrepancy.

My take on the matter is this… the Lord knows what’s in our hearts. I have worn the scapular as an inward sign of devotion to the Blessed Mother, not for heretical reasons. Now admittedly, in my weaker moments, I also have put it on because I thought it would help save my butt in case something happened. But I have strived to lead a good Catholic life and have struggled a bit with scrupulosity and obsessing with fears of hell as posted in other threads. Either way I feel I have not worn it for any heretical reasons. The scapular I think is an option, wear it if you want to as a simple sign of devition; don’t wear it if you don’t want and you’re free to express your devition in other ways, no harm no foul. I hope that makes sense and I’m not missing anything…


#19

[quote=carol marie]Hi UK Catholic guy,

I’ve actually wondered the same thing. I had such a problem with it that I talked to my Priest and he said it was one of those “optional” Catholic beliefs so I decided it’s soooooooooo not for me. I’m curious to hear what others think… ?
[/quote]

What I think is, it’s not good enough to wear the scapular and still live the way we want, in sin.
I heard a story about a prostitute that wore a scapular, when she was dying, just before she died the scapular started to burn her, and burst into flames.
She pulled it off her body,-------- doesn’t matter if this is true or not, but it’s like anything else, we shouldn’t receive without excamining our conscience.
And we should’nt wear sacarmentals and still expect Gods Mercy if wer’e still careless about sin, to do so would be a mockery.
I personally wear the scapular, and am gratefull to God for this great gift.
There is a story about a ship leaving England in the 1850’s heading for NewYork,and half way there a great storm brewed.
The people thought this was it and begged a Protestant minister on board to do something about it,
so the pastor said some prayers, but still the storm did not receed.
Then a young man stepped forward, took off his scapular,said a prayer casting the scapular into the sea.
Sometime later the seas calmned down, and a gentle wave lapped up against the ship, casting the scapular onto the deck.
The pastor and his wife were astonished and inquired about this little piece of brown cloth, later on they converted.

So there you go carolmarie, I’ll bet your glad you asked. :wink:


#20

My Friends,
Our beloved late Pontiff wore the brown Scapular for many, many years. He died on the First Saturday of the month which is a day set aside for devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary and the Fatima message.

That aside, I have taken a long time praying and contemplating wearing one (10 years in fact) eventualy I decided to go take it on July 16th 2002. I was enrolled on that day.

Only 3 months later I was diagnosed with cancer. Thanks to the intercession of the Blessed virgin Mary and the compassion of Our Lord Jesus Christ I am still here and cancer free.

Take it from one who is wearing it now for almost 3 years, when you pledge to live for Christ with Mary’s help, she pledges her continuous intercession and maternal protection.

There are no special powers attached to it and it has no graces or blessings attached to it. The blessings go to the person.

It is a sacramental, meaning it prepares one for the actual grace of God which is received through the Sacraments of the Church.

To say we can wear one and live immoral lives thinking we are still assured of Heaven is total nonsense. It was never suggested that this would be the case in relation to the Scapular.

The Carmelite Scapular is not:

[list]
*]a magical charm to protect you
*]an automatic guarantee of salvation
*]an excuse for not living up to the demands of the Christian life
[/list]It is a sign:

[list]
*]which has been approved by the Church for over seven centuries;
*]which stands for the decision to
[list]
*]follow Jesus like Mary:
*]be open to God and to his will
*]be guided by faith, hope, and love
*]to pray at all times
*]to discover God present in all that happens around us.
[/list]
[/list]It was never suggested that this would be the case in relation to the Scapular. Please read the following link for clarity on these issues:

carmelnet.org/scapular/scapular.htm

I would ask those who have worn it before and may have removed it, for whatever reason, to prayerfully consider replacing it.
I would also ask those who may have never considered wearing it to consider the possibility of wearing one now.

I can send you Brown Scapulars free from Ireland if you can’t get any

God Bless.


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