Science and miracles


From the fullness of the heart the mouth speaks. What excites you? What do you find intellectually stimulating? What is your heart’s desire?

To my brothers and sisters in Christ -

God is alive today. The living God is who we pray to. Jesus Christ lived, died, was buried and rose again in real time. His miracles are well recorded.

Yet we have here, on a Catholic forum, the bored and those who are angry. They are angry at all belief, all gods and all believers. A few appear to believe that if we could somehow get rid of “them,” the believers, the world would be a better place. Of course, death is not the only way. They could just as well convince believers through some argument that there is nothing to believe in, just cold, hard science.

I encourage all Catholics to ignore the poisonous comments of some here. They range from some who hold that God is a symbol and his book is just a collection of stories to a few who insist that they have great knowledge and through this knowledge, insist: no global flood, no Adam and Eve and no God. The evidence proves it. What the evidence cannot prove are the miracles of God.

But they go further. Recently, on TV, Exodus, we were told, never happened. And where are they going with all this?

My brothers and sisters, they are only going toward atheism. They are in love with the mind of man and what they believe is modern knowledge and they look to the future with great anticipation that knowledge will be further increased. How great will man become! All gods will be overturned. Man will become his own master. He will bow before no one except the scientist who has given him all things. God is boring. Religion is an impediment. The holy books are just old myths.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. We are in a loving relationship with the Living God.

The truth of divine revelation is actual truth. Too many who love science have passed outside the boundaries of its method. Religion, they say, is just something our genes devised to help us survive. Our genes are our programmers. Just throw in a little environment and you’re done.

Science is not the road to salvation. And those who labor here, reproducing endless charts and scientific quotes, do not labor for our salvation. They argue against the miracles of God. If a scientist stood next to Jesus as he called Lazarus out of the tomb, what would he say upon seeing Lazarus alive? Or what if that same scientist saw Jesus after His resurrection and Jesus said to him, “bring your finger thither and examine my hands and put your hand in my side”?

“Nature” has no intelligence. It has no mind, and no will. Only the rational mind of God creates order, but more than that, God did intervene in human history to create the first man and woman, to destroy those things that breathed with a global flood, and came Himself, as true God and true man, to be tempted, to live as we did, and to also show the great power at His command.

All the trials and martyrs and converts over the centuries have shown the work of God made manifest on earth. Ignore those who speak with only partial knowledge and partial authority. Those who wish to throw a stumbling block in front of you. They who no longer want to endure sound teaching. Those who say accept science and ignore God. Those who are deceived will deceive others, some knowingly and some unknowingly.

Study your Catechism, read your Bible and understand what the Church teaches. This will provide the solid foundation for you.

God bless,


Ed << Study your Catechism, read your Bible and understand what the Church teaches. This will provide the solid foundation for you. >>

Yes, this has been a public service announcement from the EdWest ‘Against Science And For God’ Educational Foundation.

“I am Ed, and I approve this message.”

And…don’t forget

Science is good, God is real, Catholicism is Christianity.

“I am PhilVaz, and I approve my message.” :stuck_out_tongue:

Phil P


And here we arrive at the important distinction that must be made. Science, real science, is not in conflict with God in any way. He created an orderly universe, with laws and functions, and He gave us an intellect and curiosity so that we might see His glory in all things. Anyone who says that science removes the necessity for God is a fool, but anyone who says that God removes the necessity for science is no less a fool. Anyone who believes that science and God are at odds does not understand either one.

Some of the greatest gifts that God has given us are a result of science. And some of the greatest scientists in history, especially in the early years of science, were Catholic priests or other faithful believers. They saw God’s fingerprints on everything, and we should too.


I suggest you take some time here to read the confrontational, and essentially pointless, posts on this forum. The essence is this: I’ve looked through my vast library of science and cannot find any evidence for this or that in your holy book, therefore, your holy book is wrong. That is all I’m talking about.

God bless,


The OP reminds me how much I liked the Strawman in The Wizard of Oz (the Judy Garland version, not the Michael Jackson one).


The essence is this: I’ve looked through my vast library of science and cannot find any evidence for this or that in your holy book, therefore, your holy book is wrong. That is all I’m talking about.

Sounds like these are personal issues, not anything scientists have said, Ed.


Ed, can an good Christian believe that science as a whole “works”? Can a good Christian be a good scientist, and a good scientist be a good Christian?


If you limit yourself to the limitations of science (by its own definition) than you cannot be a good Christian.

Yes a good Christian can be a good scientist (difficult as it may be in today’s climate).


I don’t follow that.


You would be electing to ignore an awful lot of truth.


Read some posts by scientist hecd2 on this forum.



Thank you for those questions. I want to make it clear that I am dealing with a confirmed mindset here. There is the scientific method, which I have no problem with. But there is also established institutionalized bias. When scientists step outside of the scientific method and begin drawing conclusions that:

A) Cannot be demonstrated as true by using the scientific method.

B) Are reflective of their personal worldview as reported in Nature magazine - “Most Leading Scientists Still Reject God.”

As a scientist, especially in the biological sciences, most of my peers will have a bias against God. As a Christian, I do not need and should not want to force my beliefs on anybody, but when my peers start making statements about religion that includes scientific information, that’s where the problem starts. Example:
“How can you still believe in God or listen to the Pope? Huh? You’re a smart guy. This is the 21st Century, not the 13th Century. We’ve learned a lot and you’re still interested in this meaningless ritual and superstition? Didn’t you read the article where it was stated religion was created by our genes as a survival mechanism. Huh? Get with the program.”

That example was inspired by the comments of Sam Harris after attending a science conference and referring to his fellow scientists as “pod people” who actually listen to the Pope.

When scientists come out and make statements against religion based on their scientific work, they are overstepping their bounds. However, this must be understood as something more than just their opinion. To the public that reads their books, sees them on television or reads their articles online, they are the voice of authority. They have degrees, they are professors or doctors, they are taking science and using their authority and saying, here’s the evidence. Believe me when I say, We no longer believe in the Greek or Roman gods, I’m simply adding one more.

As a Christian, called to evangelize by word and deed, something needs to be said about what amounts to an abuse of their power and position. You see?

So can a good Christian be a good scientist? Yes. I read about a nun working on a cancer cure. But the environment, as I’ve pointed out, has changed. It is toxic for the believer, but not because of his work. It is due to the established, popular idea that when the science is done, it should be used to oppose Christianity and religion in general. The people around you will be thinking that. They will want that. It will be important to them.

Can a good scientist be a good Christian? It’s become a lot more difficult when the goal is to take the science and use it against those who believe in God. It becomes difficult when a member of the scientific community takes a eucharistic host, puts a nail through it and throws it into the trash, and then tells the world. Or writes a book denouncing Christianity along with the supposed scientific evidence against it. You see? Would you like to hang out with such people?

There is a new militant atheism out there that does not even want to respect religion. There is a new tolerance out there that will tolerate most anything except religion. A selective kind of tolerance. I hope I’ve been clear.

God bless,


So one cannot accept science as defined AND have faith at the same time? Why? I do. Why can’t you?




Does that vast library include the elusive high school biology textbook that explicitly denies the role of God in creation Ed?




One can absolutely accept empirical science. It is where it moves into to philosophy that is becomes an issue.

You know where the conflicts arise. We have discussed them many times.

You have pinned me down as to whether the Pope is wrong or right. I have answered.

So my question to you - Is Revelation right?


Absolutely. Is our understanding of it right? I don’t know. Are there conflicts between science and faith? Some, but it seems to me that that is because we don’t currently nor will we ever have complete understanding of either the science or of the faith. That doesn’t mean that the science is wrong or that the faith is wrong.

As you and I have agreed, truth cannot contradict truth.




So we just have to move forward and hope it gets clearer.


Agreed as usual!




We really have to stop agreeing like this. :smiley:


I have a problem with the truth cannot contradict truth aspect when it is clear that science is being forcefully promoted here. As in, see, the evidence shows your holy book is wrong. As long as science wants to make definitive statements about miracles, it is overstepping its bounds. It is going beyond its stated goals.

With all due respect, I think this needed to be repeated.


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