Scientists create artificial human eggs and sperm


#1

I wonder if this will create a human being some time soon? I wonder if children, possibly now adults, from artificial insemination look any different than to us? I guess I haven’t gave it much though until now.

cbsnews.com/news/scientists-create-artificial-human-eggs-and-sperm/


#2

Why are scientists doing this?

Why are nations supporting this?

:frowning:


#3

Quite the deceptive headline. These cells were neither artificial nor gametic. I’m curious if the stem cells used were embryonic or iPS (adult, already differentiated cells reverse-aged to be stem cells). Unfortunately Pop Sci reporting has a tendency of not only producing misleading titles but also failing to provide a citation to the original publication. :mad:


#4

Oh, hi! I think there is already a thread on this:

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=12603167#post12603167

Can they be merged?


#5

I was wondering the same thing.


#6

I don’t even know how they’re able to do this, literally. It’s creepy, to me, and unsettling. Shouldn’t God be the only One Who can create such things? How could mere man/ womankind have this ability? :confused: It’s unsettling to think that there might be nothing God can make that we can’t make also.


#7

Yep, plus, just think how the world will look in another 100 years?!!

By then, we will likely be able to create human-like beings within hours, ready to do whatever they are asked to do, kind of biological slaves I guess.

It amazes me God allows this to happen, I would have figured he would sent terrible ‘signs’ if and when mankind even attempted such things…but no signs from him yet, and doubt there will be any…???

Whats next…will mankind finally be able to beat death? I think we will, eventually, given enough time, I really wonder what God would do if we reached that level of advancement, as that would immediately effect heaven and hell, if we stopped people from dying and God did nothing even then…Im sorry to say, but I think Id have to start to question the faith at that point.


#8

Explain ‘artificial nor gametic’?


#9

lol. one similar but mines more thought provoking.:stuck_out_tongue:


#10

Well, if you’re wondering if God is going to provide signs, perhaps the book of Revelation is an indicator:

“During that time these people will seek death but will not find it, and they will long to die but death will escape them.” (Revelation 9:6, The fifth trumpet).

I often wonder how it would be possible to seek death and not be able to attain it. With the way technology is going, I can see a future where people won’t even be able to die even if they wanted to. Seems strange, put plausible.

Science may be unwittingly creating a hell where even death will be sought but not attained. That sounds like hell to me and our science seems to be leading us to a point where we can’t die!


#11

I wouldn’t consider these cells to be ‘artificial’ since nothing in them are synthetic or “not natural”. These cells were simply induced to develop into another type of natural cell. These cells are structurally and functionally indistinguishable from so-called “natural cells”. The DNA is the same in these cells as the donor stem cells, which in turn were not artificial.

These cells are not gametic (i.e. sperm or eggs) rather primordial germ cells. They are precursor cells that in and of themselves do not have the ability to fuse with other gametes to form new individuals.

Edited to add: I myself am not seeing the moral controversy here. Germ cells are part of our body and they need to be studied no differently than pulmonary cells or cardiac cells. The reproductive system is just as medically important as the respiratory or circulatory systems. Contrary to Monty Python, every sperm is not sacred. They’re just haploid cells with 50% of my DNA shuffled around. Every individual begins as the fusion of two gametes, and from that single cell develops into a multi-trillion cell individual, each cell of which has over time differentiated into the various cell types we see. How does that differentiation occur? What developmental disorders can arise during that process? What’s the actual pathophysiology of such disorders? We can’t answer any of these questions until scientists perform experiments such as the ones mentioned in the article.

Putting aside the possibility that these researchers used embryonic stem cells, I don’t see any moral issue here whatsoever.


#12

:thumbsup:


#13

Could be, but also remember if mankind somehow finds a way to beat death, it will effect everyone, not just those destined for Hell.

from what Ive heard about this recently, they will be able to somehow ‘download’ a persons conscious self onto some kind of bio-mechanical database…I watched a documentary about scientists working on this very thing about a year ago…I couldnt believe how far along they actually were…they arent there yet but as the months go by, they learn more and more, and gain more ground…it was pretty scary, but eventually technology will reach this level and depending on when the second coming happens, we could go MUCH further than this too!!


#14

Did you ever consider that this technology may be part of what will take place at the end of days? Keeping in mind that I am not the official interpreter of Holy Scripture (;)), there have been interpretations that say that there will be a last battle at the end of time where the dead will be raised and the final spiritual war will take place.

Case in point:
huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/28/ray-kurzweil-google-direc_n_2377821.html

Ray Kurzweil, Google’s Director Of Engineering, Wants To Bring The Dead Back To Life (VIDEO)

Therefore, for me at least, I don’t see this evolving technology as disproving what we have always believed as Christians. Throughout human history there have always been events that supposedly would be the death blow of Christian faith, but it never happened.

Technology advances can’t interfere with faith. Faith and Science are two different subjects. They aren’t opposing positions of the same theme.


#15

This is the problem with popular science- you have no idea how much something gets stretch between the publication and the reporting or if what you are hearing on the “science channel” is just a bunch of loons with fake degrees as is frequently the case (I’m looking at you ancient aliens)

Edit: please don’t think I mean to be condescending, it may come of as such, this is more my anger for science journalism seeping through than anything. It is very difficult for lay people to determine what is BS because of how this stuff is written so I totally understand being misled. It happens to me in areas of research I am not directly involved in like physics and astronomy

Anyway, as someone previously stated the cells they are talking about are precursor cells produced through IPSC reprogramming, the kind of stem cell research that is favored by the church and it was used to produce progenitors that are no more sacred than producing skin cells or neural progenitors.

As far as this brain uploading stuff, its total rubbish from people in the transhuman/cryonics movement. These people are currently the laughing stock of science and are usually software engineers who want to live forever and have no knowledge of neuroscience. I am not sure what kind of documentary you were watching but I actually work in a neuroscience lab where we study memory storage in the hippocampus and use IPSCs as well.

We are just starting to understand how memory is formed on the level of a single synapse and we are not even there yet, it is a complex cascade of >50 different known proteins and likely a bunch of undiscovered ones. We are so far away from being able to understand the circuitry between a dozen nerve cells and replicate them in computer that in order to say we can upload consciousness soon you pretty much have to say “and then a miracle happens” which is what these people usually say. Furthermore even if we did understand how that worked it would be nigh impossible to scan a brain and convert that information over because there is no way in sight that we could identify all of those proteins in a living creature synapse by synapse. The best we can do is kill an animal and grind up a few thousand cells and identify 4 proteins at a time over a 3 day process called western blotting. Even beyond that if you could upload your consciousness it wouldn’t really be you, just a copy, if you don’t believe me take a photocopy of the dead sea scrolls and put them up for auction you will not get 10 dollars even though they look the same as the originals.

And I know there are those that would say “well with time technology will advance.” Its not like going to the moon where there was a clear line of thinking- we have rockets that can go up a few hundred feet, we could make a big one and it would get to the moon. No, we have absolutely no ideas or basis to complete such a task.

There are amazing (and many terrible) things that I could see as being very possible in the very near future- things like replacing the genetic material in a mans sperm with that in a woman egg and adding a Y chromosome to make a woman a father. Switching an Y chromosome out for a X in a single cell from a man and then cloning from it to produce a female version of him. Making drugs that inhibit PKC isoforms and completely block memory consolidation for a few hours so we could stop someone from developing PTSD. These things are very very possible and will likely be completed in animals in a few years because they have a basis in current research, brain uploading does not.


#16

And please don’t mistake my vigor for curtness with those that are misinformed by these journalists, it is my contempt for science journalism seeping through. It is too hard for a lay man to identify what is BS that is what makes this stuff so dangerous


#17

In other words, they’re just like the rest of the mainstream media in the West. :rolleyes:

Gee, what a shock.


#18

So noted. :thumbsup:

BTW:

[SIGN] Welcome to CAF [/SIGN]


#19

It is mostly research into cancer, according to the article.


#20

So the jist of this is like if a six-year-old is goofing with Play-Doh and rolls it into a long strand proceeding to pretend it’s a snake and his mom tells the gossiping neighbor that “Little Timmy knows how to conjur sepents from clay” and then the whole neighborhood won’t attend Timmy’s birthday party because they think he’s got evil powers?


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