Scottish independence: Yes camp hails 'momentum'


#1

BBC:

Scottish independence: Yes camp hails 'momentum’

It comes as a Sunday Times poll suggests the Yes camp has taken the lead for the first time. Some 51% of those who have made up their mind and intend to vote back an independent Scotland while 49% plan to vote no, the YouGov poll suggests.
The Better Together campaign’s Alistair Darling called it a “wake-up call”.
The poll of 1,084 people, carried out between 2 and 5 September, is the first and only serious study to put the Yes campaign ahead, and suggests the pro-Union camp has lost its lead - once regularly in the double-digits.

  On 18 September voters will be asked the Yes/No question: "Should Scotland be an independent country?"
     The headline poll results exclude undecided voters or those who plan not to vote. 
     When they are included, 47% backed Yes while 45% said they would opt to stay in the UK.

[snip]

However, a separate poll for the Yes Scotland campaign put the pro-Union Better Together camp ahead by 52% to 48% - when undecided voters were excluded.
Pollsters Panelbase questioned voters between 2 and 6 September.

Not my business but it seems odd that such an important matter is being decided by a simple majority vote which is after all just a snapshot of public sentiment.


#2

I suppose it is democracy at work. However whilst it has nothing to do with me, I worry that an independent Scotland, freed from the tyranny of the sassenach, will find things harder than they expected. I say this with tongue in cheek as I felt that most were comfortable to be part of the Greater Britain. Shows you what I know looking at the polls.
There is little manufacturing, mining, or industry in Scotland. Whisky and tourism come readily to mind as good money earners, however jobs are important and the welfare pounds spent on Scotland is substantial. I know the Queen is deeply disturbed by the prospect, (she writes regularly,) and it would appear that Cameron might have to resign as the PM did when England lost the American colonies.
Labor seems paralyzed even though they have the majority of pollies in the north.
Scotland would not have the pound nor be able to join the EU.
I hope and pray they make the right decision as they are a great race, from which one side of my family, the Leslie, come only two generations ago.


#3

The 1979 Scottish referendum on Devolution had a barrier requiring 40% of the electorate to vote Yes. The result was that Scotland did vote Yes but not in sufficiently large numbers. Thereafter they were ruled by a series of governments which most Scots loathed. Any attempt to have a similar barrier for this referendum is politically unfeasible given that history.


#4

Half the population seething is probably not the best start for a new country or the best way forward if the independence vote fails.


#5

I don’t think it will happen this time just because there’s too many economic benefits, and it seems to me like some leading the charge for independence would implement a Scandinavian-type economy. Such a thing would not be good at all.

I just don’t think the Scots are sold that this right now is the best thing for them, and they may be right.

The idea that a political camp is saying its own side has momentum, well, that’s been said before. :stuck_out_tongue:


#6

Fearing losing them, U.K. offers Scotland more autonomy ahead of independence vote - cbsn.ws/1of6jJu


#7

I must say that I’m utterly opposed to offering the Scots any more in an attempt to bribe them to stay.

I would suggest that a fundamental error in this whole process has been that the Scots have had a debate, the Scots are going to be able to vote. The rest of us have had no opportunity to debate and have no opportunity to vote.

Offering any of the constituent parts of the UK more autonomy without considering the circumstances of the various regions of England seems to me to be an insult to the citizens of England.


#8

Yes, I’ve seen those polls too, with the Yes vote pulling ahead or neck and neck. We should probably brace ourselves for an independent Scotland, just in case. And I agree it will be a tough haul, economically especially. This kind of nationalism is based on emotion, frankly pretty negative emotions for the most part, and it seems to carrying people away into kind of a mob mentality. And, no, not the best groundwork for a nation. England, of course, is groveling all the more intently. The inferiority complex of that country should be analyzed. I am sorry Scots don’t like conservatives, but if this is the extent of their capacity to constructively resolve differences of opinion and focus on their best interests, good luck to them. They’ll just have more and more spatting and bickering on the other side of this, especially as things get tougher. Even if the No pull it out, the nationalists won’t go away. We see this same kind of irrationality and implacability in the US too, of course, on both sides of the political/cultural divide, not just one. Scotland needs your prayers. And I have to say the English are looking pretty decent these days.


#9

Certainly, England is one of the few topics on CAF where one can get away with that kind of nonsense.


#10

Trying to buy Scottish off with goodies and promises does kind of sound like grovelling behavior.


#11

I promise you 50-odd million of us are not grovelling - if Americans were judged as a people by the characteristics of some of your politicians then all sorts of ‘interesting’ things could be ascribed to you.


#12

I am not an American…

But you do seem to be agreeing that the elected politicians of England are grovelling.
Whether or not the elected politicians are representative of the English is neither here not there. The next election will say whether or not the majority are with them, or not.


#13

The poster said England is not grovelling but England is not grovelling, some politicians are grovelling - panicking because the situation is a product of their gross ineptitude.

Parliament after the election may well include MPs from a soon to be independent Scotland until independence actually comes about so what the majority in England thinks may well be by-the-by for quite some time.


#14

Sorry to be unclear. I was referring specifically to the British government.


#15

With North Sea oil, Scottish independent-ists go to sleep with visions of being the next Norway dancing in their heads.


#16

I wonder if they can have a referendum to get back in if things don’t work out? :stuck_out_tongue:


#17

It was a promise which was not well-received. The opposition painted it as an attempt at bribery, and as an offer which lacked credibility.

The leader of the pro-Union Better Together campaign, Alistair Darling, tried to walk back suggestions that Scotland was being offered more autonomy in exchange for rejecting independence. His says the chancellor merely was discussing previously announced changes.

In an interview with Sky News, the former Labour chancellor said: "What we’re talking about is the powers that have already been announced by the party leaders in Scotland and in Westminster.

"What the government is saying is that it proposes to publish a timetable - the procedure - to allow these proposals to be implemented.

“So, it’s not new powers; the powers have already been announced. What it is, is about the process and timetable so that people can see quite clearly how quickly these powers can be introduced.”
bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-29099431


#18

There will be a completely different set of conditions laid out for them for re-entry.


#19

Yes, and I imagine first among those will be NO MORE HAGGIS!


#20

Says who?

There is nothing which would legally prohibit Scotland from joining the EU. The issue is that there is no procedure for a seceding province of a Member State to join the EU, and so the treaties would have to be amended to include such procedure – which some countries, i.e. Spain and the (now former) UK may oppose. Scotland can also argue that it is not renouncing the EU treaties, which it is already subject to as part of UK.

Scotland could also leave the EU and then apply for membership in Article 49 mode. Since Scotland is already in compliance with EU regulations, the biggest roadblock is out of the way. Of course, the accession treaty would have to be ultimately approved by all Member States, including the (now former) UK – but I imagine that (now former) UK’s consent ultimately could be obtained in exchange for some concessions on the Scottish side.

blogs.ft.com/off-message/2014/07/24/how-would-an-independent-scotland-join-the-eu/


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.