This is sad news. I think that all we can do is pray that these abuses will diminish and people will have confidence in the Church once more.
The amount of betrayal I feel for O’Brien is large, especially as a young scot, but I pray that I am also merciful to him. He is a human, and can be forgiven.
Sancta Dei Genetrix; Ora pro nobis.
Sancti Michael Archangeli; Ora pro nobis.
If they were unwelcome sexual advances - he should lose his job. If it was just flirting or asking another person on a date, then I don’t understand what the fuss was about - Although his behaviour does beg the question as to why he was so ‘anti gay’ yet his advances were towards men.
Considering who their bishop was, this is hardly a surprise. We can only wonder how many faithful orthodox men were forced out of the seminary and priesthood because they were heterosexual or resisted advances.
So a person can’t simultaneously have homosexual desires, recognize their wrongness, and still be guilty of occasional failings?
I would suggest that is a confused person. ‘Wrongness’ is subjective. I can’t see how a homosexual flirtation is ‘wrong’. If it went further and was unwelcome, obscene or akin to sexual assault, then it is wrong and illegal and he should be reported to the police.
I can see how being taught that homosexual desires are somehow wrong can be confusing for a homosexual man. I would feel similarly confused if the Catholic church suggested heterosexual mores were ‘wrong’.
Desires as wrong? No. Actions as wrong? Yes.And you can find sufficient biblical (and for that matter, non biblical) evidence to support that viewpoint. It isn’t what the “Catholic church suggested”, its “what the Bible says”.
Fair point. So we have established that actions are wrong.
As I see it the Bible and it’s different versions are interpreted in different ways, by different people and by different religions.
I don’t have an issue with the Catholic churches suggestions, per se.
Mr Draper, a lecturer in ethics from Dundee University, was brought in to advise Scottish bishops on abuse allegations but was removed after a disagreement.
He has disclosed that bishops were aware of 20 separate cases in the Church between 1985 and 1995 but he alleges that they were “reluctant” to take matters further and rejected his call for independent experts to be brought in.
If the Bishops did not do anything about it, why is it that this Draper chap didn’t take the initiative to do something at that time?
With all due respect, april, here you go again reserving for yourself something but denying the Church this right. You appear to be saying that “wrongness” is subjective, but then turn around in the same paragraph and state that you get to declare something to be wrong.
Please be fair. If you get to declare something to be wrong, then so should the Catholic Church, right?
Just like the catholic church has a view, I have a view. Not sure I am getting your point
I am heartened to see that you acknowledge that the Catholic Church has a right to proclaim that, say, a sexual act between 2 men is immoral.
Every one is entitled to their view. I don’t see it as immoral.
It is fascinating as to why the church which is run by celibates, has a position on homosexual sex
Do they have to be murderers to “have a position” on murder?
Are you equating sex with murder?
avoids stand up comic joke
Disordered sex is a violation of one of the 10 Commandments. So is murder. A sexual “revolution” doesn’t change that.
I’m okay, you’re okay, one view is just as good as another?
Sorry, celibacy is only a discipline of the Church, and not even the whole Church. The immorality of fornication (of/with either sex) is doctrine.
It isn’t so much a position on homosexual sex as a position that all sex outside marriage is wrong.
Well I suppose at least the situation in Scotland isn’t as bad as Ireland.
I suggest that some view carry more weight.
The catholic doctrine or view of the church on sexual morality, is it’s position. Why a church has a position on legal sex between consenting adults escapes me.
I don’t see how sex outside marriage is wrong