SDA and the Papacy

In another thread it was noted that the SDA has no official teaching about the Papacy in their Church Manual. I was wondering what the “thoughts are” then on the Papacy by any SDA or former SDA members here.

It was my understanding it was not favorable and their belief is some Pope is responsible for changing the Sabbath day according to vision from Ellen White. Is this correct? If so then is it simply a belief that one may or may not hold as a SDA member since it’s not in the Church Manual or does the Church Manual contain all official beliefs?

I’m rather fond of the Pope of course.

Thanks,

Mary.

The SDA has moderated its views to some degree in recent years, but still delights in stealing Catholics away from the Church. At least unofficially, they hold that the Catholic Church is the “whore of Babylon” and the the pope is the antichrist. They also seem to conceal the influence of Ellen Gould White upon their beliefs. Her name has been abbreviated to simply 'EG White" on many of her books. Yet, a little digging into her bio shows a young girl that received a traumatic and apparently organic brain injury before falling into a coma for three weeks. Later, she was potentially poisoned with mercury vapor by involvement in the family hat-making business. Only after this did she begin receiving “visions”

As with all of the other false prophets and visionaries, I have seen zero evidence that she did anything at all to test those spirits to see if they were from God (1 John 4:1).

Yes, that has been my experience with SDA’s an another forum, especially a SDA “elder” or whatever terminology the use. Thus, I wonder what is in the Church Manual.
Mary.
It seems as though the SDA Church Manual is like a magisterium.

Every non-Catholic assembly has their own pope - someone in charge. Every one of them has their private magisterium - all have a published “statement of beliefs” while denying any creed. What utter nonsense! The problem is that they are essentially a house of cards based on personal opinion rather than revealed truth.

I became well acquainted with the SDA, as our chaplain at work was an SDA pastor. I looked into their beliefs and found that they seemed to be propelled 50% by love of God and 50% by hatred of the Catholic Church. They are also re-baptizers.

Yes, they evangelize out of “love” for the non Saved Catholics bound for hell. (ahem)
It was my experience they have a fit if you even imply Ellen White is not in the Bible
and try hard to “pretend she doesn’t exist”

Mary.

:popcorn:

Hi all, I’ll post later on this issue. Got a few things I need to do first today.

I was hoping you might see this and post!~ See ya later.
I saw your post regarding misconceptions of the SDA on another thread.
Mary.

While there is a president of the SDA church, this person is not seen as being infallible, as he is only a man who ‘if’ he is going on personal opinion would be voted out of position.

It’s sad that some believe the SDAs come across as having a hatred towards Catholics, this is not something that the church teaches. Plain and simply it’s wrong.

On rebaptism, it’s taught that this should only be rare and in special circumstances. In all honesty though, it probably happens more than it should.

Not hatred toward Catholics, but clear and obvious hatred of the Catholic Church. The SDA foreign missions seems almost always to target Catholic nations, such as the Philippines. As with the LDS and JWs, the SDA view the Catholic Church as a field to be harvested, and do lure many Catholics away from Christ in the Holy Eucharist. Thus, they are corrosive to Christian unity, and I do not believe that they are in communion with any other protestant group - most of which cast a jaundiced eye in their direction.

I have looked into the SDA quite a bit, having an SDA chaplain at work and SDA extended family members. This is a sect that is on the fringe of Christianity, much of it caused by the very odd beliefs that stem from Ellen Gould White’s numerous “visions” As a practical matter, she is the SDA “pope”, as her prolific writings are held to be inspired, but on a slightly lower level than the scriptures. No Catholic writings outside of the New Testament have ever been held in such awe.

SDA history is clearly, indisputably anti-Catholic. There can be no lucid or rational argument against this. Anti-Catholicism still runs rampant in the group, even if they have washed officlal documents to maintain the appearance of a softened stance on the Catholic Church. Ellen’s writings have a virulent anti-Catholicism in their very DNA. Yet, Ellen seems not to be mentioned so much these days, even though she lives on in the SDA beliefs.

All of the things that you claim are aberrations in SDA behavior seem to be the norm in my experience. The SDA flat out rejects a pouring baptism, and will re-baptize Catholics or any others who have undergone a pouring baptism. As I see it, they have consulted the Greek dictionary and determined, by their own “authority” that one must be completely immersed in water in order to be baptized. Having no Apostolic Tradition to teach them otherwise, I can understand why they have done this. That does not make it correct.

Anti-Catholicism is taught in their schools, as family members attended such a school and instinctively knew that what they were hearing was wrong. I have heard absolutely outrageous and obviously fabricated anecdotes about the Catholic Church - clearly lies that are being repeated among SDA members. This all comes from somewhere.

Should this happen? Of course not! Does it? Daily. As to their “official beliefs”, I tend rather to watch their behavior than read their documents, as I see a substantial difference between the two.

It’s all public record. How sad if SDA members are hearing it for the first time.

Anyone here with a copy of the excellent and highly-rated The Essential Catholic Survival Guide, a Catholic Answers’ publication, can find more than this in the section on the SDA.

The prophet Ellen White is considered to be “the continuing Pope” of the SDA Church…
…They believe that she was a type of sock puppet for God, as in God spoke the actual words out of her mouth.
…Sort of like the “Oracle of Delphi” - in ancient Greece.

The following is Ellen White’s teachings on the subject of her authority.

R&H Jan 26,1905
The word given me is, ‘You are faithfully to reprove those who would mar the faith of the people of God. Write out the things which I shall give you, that they may stand as a witness to the truth till the end of time.’ I said, 'If any of the citizens of Battle Creek wish to know what Mrs. White believes and teaches, let them read her published books. My labors would be naught should I preach another gospel. That which I have written is what the Lord has bidden me write. I have not been instructed to change that which I have sent out

Selected Messages, Vol. 1, Chapter One "The Inspiration of the Prophetic WritersThe Bible is written by inspired men, but it is NOT God’s mode of thought and expression. It is that of humanity. God, as a writer, is not represented. Men will often say such an expression is not like God. But God has not put Himself in words, in logic, in rhetoric, on trial in the Bible. The writers of the Bible were God’s penmen, not His pen."

Ellen White was claimed to be “The Pen of Inspiration” ergo her teachings are the final world on what the Bible ‘really means’…

1MR 28
Before I stand on my feet, I have no thought of speaking as plainly as I do. But the Spirit of God rests upon me with power, and I CANNOT but speak the words GIVEN me. I dare not withhold one word of the testimony… I speak the words GIVEN ME by a higher power than human power, and I CANNOT, if I would, recall [retract] one sentence

1SM 161; CW 32; The Early Elmshaven Years 426
We are NOT to receive the words of those who come with a message that contradicts the special points of our faith. They gather together a mass of Scripture, and pile it as proof around their asserted theories. . . . And while the Scriptures are God’s word, and are to be respected, the application of them, IF such application moves one pillar from the foundation that God has sustained these fifty years, is a great mistake. He who makes such an application knows not the wonderful demonstration of the Holy Spirit that gave power and force to the past messages that have come to the people of God

Notice that what she is saying is that if a person comes to an SDA with a “mass of Scripture” that contradicts what Ellen said prior…
…It would be a mistake to reject Ellen’s teachings in favor of the mass of Scripture.
…Because God already demonstrated that Ellen’s teachings are the correct way.

Testimonies, Vol. 8, p. 298
We MUST follow the directions given through the Spirit of Prophecy [Mrs. White’s writings]. … God has spoken to us through His Word. He has spoken to us through the Testimonies to the church and through the books that have helped to make plain our present duty and the position that we should now occupy

Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 66
If you lessen the confidence of God’s people **in the testimonies **he has sent them, you are rebelling against God as certainly as were Korah, Dathan and Abirum

All of this is designed to program the Seventh-day Adventists to accept Ellen White when she affirms…
…That Christ **could have possibly sinned and lost His own salvation **& subsequently been eternally annihilated.
…By God the Father who “in time” gave creature Christ a conditional deity to use “to try” to defeat Lucifer.

This is the SDA “Par-Excellence” Doctrine upon which most everything else they teach is based on…

Po-

The book is a perfect Christmas gift for my college student daughter. Just ordered one as a Christmas present. Thank you,

PnP

Selected Messages, Vol. 1, Chapter One "The Inspiration of the Prophetic WritersThe Bible is written by inspired men, but it is NOT God’s mode of thought and expression. It is that of humanity. God, as a writer, is not represented. Men will often say such an expression is not like God. But God has not put Himself in words, in logic, in rhetoric, on trial in the Bible. The writers of the Bible were God’s penmen, not His pen."

Ellen White was claimed to be “The Pen of Inspiration” ergo her teachings are the final world on what the Bible ‘really means’…

1MR 28
Before I stand on my feet, I have no thought of speaking as plainly as I do. But the Spirit of God rests upon me with power, and I CANNOT but speak the words GIVEN me. I dare not withhold one word of the testimony… I speak the words GIVEN ME by a higher power than human power, and I CANNOT, if I would, recall [retract] one sentence

1SM 161; CW 32; The Early Elmshaven Years 426
We are NOT to receive the words of those who come with a message that contradicts the special points of our faith. They gather together a mass of Scripture, and pile it as proof around their asserted theories. . . . And while the Scriptures are God’s word, and are to be respected, the application of them, IF such application moves one pillar from the foundation that God has sustained these fifty years, is a great mistake. He who makes such an application knows not the wonderful demonstration of the Holy Spirit that gave power and force to the past messages that have come to the people of God

Notice that what she is saying is that if a person comes to an SDA with a “mass of Scripture” that contradicts what Ellen said prior…
…It would be a mistake to reject Ellen’s teachings in favor of the mass of Scripture.
…Because God already demonstrated that Ellen’s teachings are the correct way.

Testimonies, Vol. 8, p. 298
We MUST follow the directions given through the Spirit of Prophecy [Mrs. White’s writings]. … God has spoken to us through His Word. He has spoken to us through the Testimonies to the church and through the books that have helped to make plain our present duty and the position that we should now occupy

Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 66
If you lessen the confidence of God’s people **in the testimonies **he has sent them, you are rebelling against God as certainly as were Korah, Dathan and Abirum

All of this is designed to program the Seventh-day Adventists to accept Ellen White when she affirms…
…That Christ **could have possibly sinned and lost His own salvation **& subsequently been eternally annihilated.
…By God the Father who “in time” gave creature Christ a conditional deity to use “to try” to defeat Lucifer.

This is the SDA “Par-Excellence” Doctrine upon which most everything else they teach is based on…

I have somewhere in my stack of books a book about the SDAs. She really does not like the Catholic Church. There is also a new channel on my cable line up that includes the SDA. It is called 3ABN. They have quite the assortment of Adventist speakers.

Sorry, I had to remove the color in order to read it. The “Sandy Brown” color appears as a very pale orange on my monitor.

Hi Miriam, it would seem that most of the heterodox teachings of Adventists are geared toward their pay dirt doctrine…
…That being Jesus was a creature Christ who had the possibility of failing.
…And had that failure happened the real God would have eternally annihilated creature Christ.

Another disturbing thing the SDA’s teach was that after Jesus rose from the dead…
…He wouldn’t allow Mary to “touch Him” and the reason the teaching gives.
…Is that Jesus wasn’t sure if the Great Father would accept His sacrifice of Himself!
…So Jesus had to first get "confirmation" so it would be ok that people adored Him.

The SDA teaching that Ellen was a sort of Pope, the Saturday Sabbath, The Father is made of flesh and bone and the rest of their strange doctrines…
…All are geared to lay the groundwork for their creature Christ ( Arian ) doctrine.
…Everything is subservient to that one thing.

1 John 4:3
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

3 And every spirit that dissolveth Jesus, is not of God: and this is Antichrist, of whom you have heard that he cometh, and he is now already in the world.

The test which is never applied by sects and cults to the words of their founders - from Muhammad to Joseph Smith to Ellen Gould White to Charles Taze Russell.

Trust me the SDA Church does have a lot of hate towards the Catholic Church, trust me my gf is SDA, she has calmed down after we have read the Bible and she has seen that her Church doesn’t teach everything that the Bible teaches, i.e., abortion, contraception, the importance of Mary, just to name a few.

Whenever you speak to them be leery about the book of Daniel they will state that’s were their beliefs against Catholicism comes from.

Yes, they place much emphasis on the Book of Daniel & the Apocalypse of St. John…
…This isn’t in & of itself ISN’T a problem with the denomination.
…The problem is that they place MORE emphasis on THEIR interpretation of those Books.

Because Ellen’s husband and all of his friends were Arian in theology…
…Ellen was required to repudiate her Methodist background.
…And started to gloat that God could have annihilated Christ had that creature sinned!

Po 18guy NAILED it with the Scirpture he quoted…
…Past that our Creed, which systematizes Scripture is very clear from the documents.

That Part of the Creed
And whosoever shall say that there was a time when the Son of God was not (ἤν ποτε ὅτε οὐκ ἦν), or that before he was begotten he was not, or that he was made of things that were not, or that he is of a different substance or essence [from the Father] or that he is a creature, OR **subject to change ** OR conversionall that so say, the Catholic and Apostolic Church anathematizes them.

Look at the Synodal Letter attached to the documents of the Creed.
investigation was made of matters concerning the impiety and transgression of Arius and his adherents; and it was unanimously decreed that he and his impious opinion should be anathematized, together with the blasphemous words and speculations in which he indulged, blaspheming the Son of God, and saying that he is from things that are not, and that before he was begotten he was not, and that there was a time when he was not, AND that the Son of God is by his free will capable of VICE and virtue; saying also that he is a creature. All these things the holy Synod has anathematized, not even enduring to hear his impious doctrine and madness and blasphemous words. And of the charges against him and of the results they had, you have either already heard or will hear

Make no mistake - SDA’s gloat that Christ could have sinned and failed…
…And if that had in fact happened the real God would have roasted creature Christ.
…Also it is taught that after God had destroyed creature christ.
…He would become as if he never existed in the first place.

This is part of their total annihilation of man Doctrine…

From the Haydock commentary. Those who deny the divinity of Christ are of the spirit of the antichrist and prefigure the great antichrist to come.

Ver. 3. That dissolveth Jesus, viz. either by denying his humanity or his divinity. (Challoner) — This is antichrist;[2] i.e. such is the spirit of antichrist, of whom you have heard that he cometh, or is to come in the latter times. — And he is now already in the world, not the chief and great antichrist, but his precursors, in whom he may be said to come. (Witham) — And he is now already in the world. Not in his person, but in his spirit and in his precursors. (Challoner)

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