SDA posted this on FB. Help sort this?

I have a SDA relative that is very passionate about his faith. Can you provide some insight to this please?

The great tribulation that Jesus speaks of that ends right before the sun is darkened, the moon does not give her light, and the stars start falling has already happened centuries ago. But the Pope must keep the lie that the “great tribulation” is something that happens in the future… called futurism. Basic it comes down to this, if he preaches the great tribulation as pertaining to historic fact and not Jesuit false theories… then everyone will know the inquisitions of Rome (where 500,000,000 Christians were tortured and killed by the Popes of Rome) will be clearly seen as the great tribulation just as Jesus prophesied.

Read Matthew 24:29.

If we look back in historic record we find that the Vatican killed 500 million Christians during the years 538 AD to 1798 AD. Jesus said after that tribulation the events with the Sun, moon and stars will happen. In the year 1780 the Vatican was doing all they could to hang unto ropes of sand politically. Revolt was absolutely everywhere due to their bloodthirsty and torturous ways. In fact, the word “torture” became synonymous with the office of Pope. Way too many people knew all about how the Popes and priests tortured and killed their neighbors, friends and family members because quite often it was done in their home villages to keep terror in the hearts of the people and control of same under Rome’s thumb. Revolt had finally spread to a point that some men that no longer trusted the Popes and their false religion were catapulted to key positions of power so as to help remove the Pope from power. The Vatican was so busy trying to repair the public relations nightmare created by all those killings forced them to stop killing so as to protect their political power. As the old saying goes, it was too little too late.
It was in 1780 that the long prophesied signs of our Lord Jesus started to appear in the Heavens confirming the prophetic fact that the mortal wound was soon to be administered to the Pope. On May 19, 1780 the following historic statements were made and forever recorded in the annals of history.
The remarkable Dark Day of May 19, 1780, is described by Samuel Williams of Harvard, The professor relates… “between the hours of ten and eleven a.m., and continued until the middle of the next night,… Candles were lighted up in houses; … the birds having sung their evening songs, disappeared, and became silent;… the fowls retired to roost; … the cocks were crowing all around, as at the break of day; … objects could not be distinguished but at a very little distance; and everything bore the appearance and gloom of night.” -Memoirs of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences [through 1783], vol.1 pp. 234,235.)
Jesus said, “Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened…” The United States had barely been born when on May 19, 1780 it witnessed what has been remembered in history as the great Dark Day. According to the Boston Gazette, “there was the appearance of midnight at noonday.” The darkness began around 10 a.m. Candles were lighted; animals thought it was night. The Connecticut Historical Collections describes the tension in the state legislature where, “a very general opinion prevailed, that the day of judgment was at hand.” The poet John Greenleaf Whittier called it “a horror of great darkness.”
The moon was at it’s full, and had the appearance of blood. Stone’s History of Massachusetts
“There was an appearance of midnight at noonday,” and in the evening, although the moon was just past full, “perhaps it was never darker since the children of Israel left the house of bondage.” In connection with this extraordinary phenomenon the moon was reported to appear red. (Letter signed “Viator” in the Independent Chronical [Boston], May 25, 1780, p.2; see also the Pennsylvania Evening Post [Philadelphia], June 6, 1780, p. 62)
Frederick Douglas, in reminiscing about his early days of slavery, says: "I witnessed this gorgeous spectacle, and was awe-struck. The air seemed filled with bright messengers from the sky… I was not without the suggestion at the moment that it might be the harbringer of the coming of the Son of Man; and in my then state of mind I was prepared to hail Him as my friend and deliverer. I had read that “the stars shall fall from heaven, and they were now falling.” -Life and Times of Frederick Douglass (1941 ed.), p.117.
Just as Jesus predicted, when the Vatican stopped killing these signs appeared. It got so bad for the Pope that by 1798 Napoleon finally had the political power necessary to force the Pope into exile so as to mortally wound him as prophecy predicted. But, because this prophesied event was so graphic and so telling in that only one church on planet earth was pointed out as the one used by Satan to perform it, and that was of course the Roman Catholic church, the Popes of Rome and their Jesuit counterparts cooked up some false prophetic events to hide the truth about this. We know those false prophecies as the “seven year tribulation”, “the secret rapture” and a “1000 years of peace” today. Thanks to their efforts as well as placing these proven lies into the “helps” of many Bibles starting with the Scofield Reference Bible, almost every church on earth preaches these lies so as to prevent the population at large from discovering the truth about what history recorded and the Bible predicted as a long struck death knell to the Vatican when it comes to exposing them as THE home to Antichrist! And that is why this Jesuit Pope is right now claiming those prophesied signs regarding the darkened sun, blood red moon and stars falling is a future event. To do otherwise would be political and spiritual suicide for the Roman Catholic church. So lie they must to continue the agenda of Satan their dying god.

First off… 500,000,000 Christians were tortured by the inquisition? :confused: Tell your friend that if they’re going to post nonsense at least get their numbers right. They’re a couple of 0’s off on even how many people were ever brought before all the inquisitions in all of history.

Not to mention there weren’t a whole lot more people the world over than 500,000,000 at that time…:shrug:

Damn, that’s half a billion. I think your relative is lying here. Just saying, his entire argument is nonsense.

Those weren’t the first mortal wounds administered to Popes anyway. It has kept on happening.

Many things that are in Scriptures have had or will have a foretaste.

there weren’t that many Christians yet…and definitely not that many people yet in the whole entire world population…

Just anti catholic dabble…

Remember, his religion was founded by a nutty woman named Ellen Gould White. They call worship on SUNDAY the sign of the devil or some nonsense…but Jesus rose on the “first day of the week” and on most calendars that is SUNDAY…the day after the Jewish sabbath,

And there were still a few persecutions going on during that time period by pagans.

Nothing causes more heartburn for Catholics than when they are confronted by well meaning protestants about the Inquisition. The accusations by non-Catholic Christians goes something like this:

“The Catholic Church tried, convicted, tortured and killed millions of bible-believing protestants just like me in the middle ages, because they refused to convert to Catholicism and to bow down to the pope. And therefore this proves that the Catholic Church is evil and is not the one true church.”

Once this accusation is out there, the Catholic will usually look sheepish and mutter something about “that was a long time ago,” “We don’t do that anymore,” or else they just shutup and turn and walk away. But the accusation is 100% false, and is nothing more than 16th century propaganda that has been passed down through the ages as fact, with the purpose of trying to prove the worth of protestantism by tearing down the Catholic Church. This webpage will explore the facts and the fantasy of inquisition myths and lore.

The period in history known as “The Inquisition” was actually a series of European church/state trials in several countries. Most European countries in those days were like Israel in the Bible – The Church and State were NOT totally separated from each other, but were a kind of a marriage between the two. The Holy Roman Empire and many of its countries had Catholicism as its state religion, following in the footsteps of Constantine, who encouraged this practice. Catholicism was a unifying cultural faith for the communities in the different European Kingdoms. Quite a difference from today in the Unites States, with its Masonic “separation of Church and State,” a phrase nowhere to be found in the Declaration of Independence or the original Constitution, but which the Supreme Court “interpreted” for all of us as “the law of the land.” In Europe of those days, to violate Catholic practices was seen as unpatriotic as well as heretical. And to violate the Catholic faith was not seen as a private matter either, but one that affected the entire community. It is this setting that gave birth to the “Inquisition,” which sought to preserve faith and culture in the Kingdoms where they were threatened by those who only pretended to be Catholic, but who were in fact, Albigensians, Jews, or Muslims. The struggle for the Church was to use the force of the secular state to enforce its findings, at the same time preserving the true meaning of the gospel of Jesus Christ. In this, the Church was sometimes successful, sometimes not, as we shall see.

The inquisition process was set up by the Church in the 13th century, well before Luther’s 16th century heresies of “saved by faith alone” and “the bible alone.” The formal process was necessary because of the Albigensian Crusade (also known as the Cathars). The Albigensians were a movement out of France that preached that marriage was evil, but that fornication was OK. They believed that there were two gods – the mean old God of the Old Testament who killed everyone, and the nice God of the New Testament who came to save everyone. They preached that the material world was evil, and therefore suicide was great. In 1208 (supposedly the same year that Mary gave St. Dominic the Rosary), the Albigensians killed a papal representative in France, and Pope Innocent III reacted by instituting better preaching of Catholicism, education, and reforms. But mob rule broke out instead, and for 20 years there was back and forth skirmishes between local citizens, priests, bishops, armies, and the Albigensians. So in 1231, Pope Gregory, the same great Pope who gave us the accurate Gregorian calendar we still use today, initiated a series of canonical instructions which formalized the process of fighting the Albigensians, many of whom had gone underground to escape death by the army. These canonical instructions became the blueprint for the inquisition courts.

Inquisitions were local trials, usually with a papal representative, the bishop of the area, or maybe even a priest from a local religious order. These trials were never ongoing non-stop, but rather started and stopped many times. The purpose of the trial was to root out clandestine heretics who pretended to be Catholic, but who were secretly behind the scenes implementing heresy to destroy the Kingdom from within. This is similar to today, where many people believe that some leaders are closet muslims who only pretend to be Christian. The danger is that enemies of the state may be getting aid and comfort from the very people who are supposed to be protecting citizens from the enemies. The goal of the Church in these trials was the conversion of the apostate soul. If the person repented and converted, a simple confession with resultant penance was the judgment of the court. If he or she did not convert, then that person was handed over to the secular authorities for whatever punishment the state deemed necessary. In some cases, this involved torture and capital punishment if the person was deemed a threat to the state.

It’s important to note that the prevalent means of obtaining confessions in those days was torture. However, the priests were forbidden to participate in it, and the torture by the inquisition court was much less severe than that of the civil court. In fact, many citizens who weren’t accused of heresy, but rather of a civil crime like theft, would often blurt out heretical statements in their secular trial so that they could be tried instead by the much easier inquisition. Again, no torture today is justified, but in those days, it was the accepted means of obtaining confessions. Most of the crimes investigated by the inquisition consisted of things like fornication, adultery, not attending Mass, etc. And a LOT of the perps were clergy, which should please a lot of secular people today, who falsely believe that all priests are child molesters and should all be in jail.

This is really nuts. It helps put Ben Carson into context, honestly.

So what about the millions of protestants and scientists being tortured and killed by the inquisition? Well, those are two lies – In the case of Galileo, he was tried by the inquisition for presenting the Copernican theory of heliocentricity (the earth revolves around the sun) as a fact before it was proven (it was proven centuries later, by the Catholic Church). And he began to lecture the Pope publicly about the true meaning of scripture, which was definitely outside the purview of a scientist. Galileo was never tortured, and was not killed by the inquisition, but was rather placed under house arrest, in a very nice comfy mansion. Regarding the “millions of protestants” killed under the inquisition, Spain, which led the majority of inquisitions in killing heretics, simply did not have that many protestants in the 16th and 17th centuries. And in fact, after Luther’s revolt in the 16th Century, thousands of Catholics and witches were killed by protestant authorities in Germany, in the protestant counter-inquisition. Henry VIII continued this tradition of killing Catholics who wouldn’t convert to protestantism as well, both in England, and later on, in Ireland, where the British Crown refused to even let the Mass be said! In America, the protestants in Salem had their own inquisition of clandestine witches, and executed them when found guilty. In 1834, the Spanish government officially ended the inquisition in Spain.

The big myth of the inquisition is that almost 100 million people were killed by the inquisition. But the few countries that carried out inquisitions – France, Italy, Spain – simply did not have that many people living there in those days. The best estimates of those who were killed range from a few thousand to ten thousand, over 5 centuries! Of course, today, we see all of this as being evil, through the lens of history in our Monday morning quarterback seats. But back then, it was the norm.

Summing up, the Church originally instituted the formal process known as the inquisition to quell the mob violence against the Albigensians, who preached that there was more than one god, that marriage was evil and fornication was good, that no formal government oaths should be taken, that all matter in this world (including the body) is evil, and that ritualistic suicide to escape this evil world is a wonderful thing. One can only imagine what would have happened if these guys would not have been fought against and destroyed by the Catholic Church!

What does SDA stand for? I’ve never heard of that particular denomination. (Or at least, I don’t recognize the abbreviation.)

Seventh-Day Adventist. A small group but active in evangelism. There is good material on this website about SDA. For example:

catholic.com/tracts/seventh-day-adventism

You lost me at 500m.

Sometimes the best response is to ask if they are reviewing multiple sources to achieve a conclusion.

Many folks take what someone else says and run with it. Best to be cautious there when it is forming your foundation.

I do want to say welcome! Looks like 3 recent sign ups.

I hope you all stick around a bit, enjoy your stay!

Take care,

Mike

I genuinely appreciate the replies, and insight. My relative just recently graduated from Amazing Facts School (if that helps).

I have been stunned by many of the lengthy anti-catholic posts. Its difficult at times to wade through them, as they have triggered questions from our family.

I dated a girl who is sda. We were never on the same page bc of her faith. At the bottom of my post is a book that I made. I made bc she wanted to know what we believed as Catholics. So in there are verses from the bible, in regards to different catholic beliefs.

This doesn’t strike me as someone who is passionate about their faith, it’s nothing more than a long hateful rant about another religion. I received the same type of garbage in print form from SDA’s. After about the 8th encounter in a combination of visits and pamphleting I told the next person I had no interest in joining a church whose only point seemed to be hating another church, nor was I going to discuss history with people who didn’t know anything about it. No proselytizers of any faith have been in our neighborhood for 4 or 5 years now but as far as I can tell from my previous interactions with SDA’s, the only foundation they have is hating other churches, that’s not much to base a faith on. Maybe ask your relative to talk about what his or her church has to offer besides endless hatred of all things Catholic because you’re not interested in joining the church of What’s Wrong with Everybody Else.

Sorry I don’t have any helpful advice:imsorry:

I might regret this, but I feel like I must answer back to this in some way. I’ll try to hold back a little bit.

Not much of an argument with the facts presented, except for one kind of important thing. If Galileo, as a man of science, did not actually prove heliocentricity, how exactly did he (as a scientist) becomes so gosh darn convinced that a paradigm shift was in order?

I submit that he did not do this through some random leap of faith, he studied the evidence did calculations and initially concluded that the geocentric model was completely off base. Once this was proven, he came up with a much better model which was basically accurate if not the most precise thing in the world from the outset. I would argue that the geocentric model was absolutely, evidentially, unequivocally debunked and busted, and there was more than enough proof to demonstrate that. Which is exactly why he did demonstrate it.

Regarding the “millions of protestants” killed under the inquisition, Spain, which led the majority of inquisitions in killing heretics, simply did not have that many protestants in the 16th and 17th centuries. And in fact, after Luther’s revolt in the 16th Century, thousands of Catholics and witches were killed by protestant authorities in Germany, in the protestant counter-inquisition. Henry VIII continued this tradition of killing…/

Not too much of an argument here either, except to point out that the heinous acts of very bad Protestants were pretty much all carried out by people who had been Catholic until just recently, then within months or years of leaving Catholicism (and in many if not most cases self-identifying as “true Catholics” no matter what the Pope said), that was exactly when they did the terrible things of which you speak. Just like the Catholics-who-continued-to-be-Catholic. Overall, I look at this as a fairly meaningless distinction between the heinous acts of Catholics-who-stayed and Catholics-who-just-stopped-being. And I’m happy to identify myself much more closely with slightly later generations of Protestants who were never Catholic.

The big myth of the inquisition is that almost 100 million people were killed by the inquisition. But the few countries that carried out inquisitions – France, Italy, Spain – simply did not have that many people living there in those days. The best estimates of those who were killed range from a few thousand to ten thousand, over 5 centuries! Of course, today, we see all of this as being evil, through the lens of history in our Monday morning quarterback seats. But back then, it was the norm.

I wouldn’t cal it “the lens of history in our Monday morning quarterback seats.” I would call it a rational assessment of natural law. Natural law, at least in part, stands in judgment of actual laws, customs, practices, what have you. It’s not a lazy unacceptable practice, it’s one of the core concepts pertaining to a Christian view of morality going back through pretty much all of Christianity’s history.

Summing up, the Church originally instituted the formal process known as the inquisition to quell the mob violence against the Albigensians, who preached that there was more than one god, that marriage was evil and fornication was good, that no formal government oaths should be taken, that all matter in this world (including the body) is evil, and that ritualistic suicide to escape this evil world is a wonderful thing. One can only imagine what would have happened if these guys would not have been fought against and destroyed by the Catholic Church!

Someone with much more expertise than me really needs to set you straight on the Albigensian Crusade, but in brief summary, I will state for the record that beginning in its third year, and because of how Catholics in the north of Italy were beginning to sympathize with the Cathars (or Albigensians), the Catholic Church knowingly spread lies about them and willfully bore false witness in order to turn public opinion against them and make people more hawkish. It worked, and to this day there are some Catholic historians who act more like apologists than actual scholars and they contribute even more to twisting you around because they continue to present some of these lies as if they were absolute fact.

I will also point out that among other things, the Albigensians were pacifists. Remember that. You made a huge deal about the enormous threat that was posed by a group of pacifists. Who knows what would have happened if there wasn’t a Crusade dedicated to wiping them out…well, I’ll tell you. They would have converted people for awhile, maybe they would have made it to the present day, and the Catholic Church would not have the blood of pacifists on its hands. Heretics, sure enough, but heretics who had as much a right to live, be free, and practice their religion as anyone else, and once again these heretics were pacifists. How do you justify killing people who are pacifists? Well, I suppose you make them seem really dangerous and ignore the fact that THEY WERE PACIFISTS.

Ok, that’s about enough. I should probably stop there.

The latest thinking’s of the SDA Church re prophesy and fulfillment are now well off the mark, its beginnings were based from a Baha’i point of view, on very sound predictions.

The SDA Church Was founded by William Miller and His research ended with the Belief that the 2300 prophesy would culminate sometime between March 21 1843 and March 21 1844 by using the 457 BC Starting point that is also used to prove Christs revelation from Daniel.

The Book of Revelation in the Bible pretty much mirrors what Daniel is also saying about the Last days. Cut a longer story short 1260 years is also raised as an important milestone in both those books.

What nearly all SDA Church members do not know is that 1260 was also 1844, a startling fact that would have really fueled the fire of 1844 and may have changed the course of the “Great Disappointment” and the establishment of more churches like the Jehovah Witnesses.

So ask your friend if they do know that 1844AD was also the year 1260AH.

If you need prior study, also consider it was determined that 3 1/2 Days, 3 1/2 years, 42 months, Times Times & half a time,1200 & 3 score days, are all talking about the1260 years.

God Bless and Regards Tony

SDAs are very anti-Catholic. A large part of their faith is based on the Catholic Church being wrong. It is part of their identity. There faith is also based on a long series of failed predictions. You can challenge the asserted facts like the ridiculous five hundred million claim. But the person will most likely just keep coming with new false claims. Pray for them and if you want to engage ask them to back up every single claim they make.

I have no time to do this in depth or detail, but I do get to do one of my favorite things (in addition to using the word “motley”): recommend books.

For the Inquisitions, in general, Peters’ INQUISITION. For the Spanish Inquisition in particular, Kamen’ s SPANISH INQUISITION. Balanced and highly respected accounts, based on history, not sectarian hysteria and hyperbole. For the Albigensians, O’Shea’s THE PERFECT HERSEY. For a more scholarly approach, Strayer’s THE ALBIGENSIAN CRUSADES.

In general, books are much to be preferred over the internet.

Should that be HORSEY? If so, can I have the beast’s name? I have no objection to receiving a fairly considerable amount of money, and having it provided by the gambling dens would be socially constructive as well as personally useful.

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