Second Annulment Possible?


#1

A Catholic, I was married to a Catholic woman for less than 2 years back in 1985. Due to my substance abuse at the time, I petitioned–and was granted an annulment.

I married again, after treatment and continued recovery from substance abuse–although not in the Catholic Church, in 1990. In 2000 we had our marriage convalidated. I am now divorced and wonder what my chances are for a second annulment?

Briefly, the second woman I married had–and has–emotional problems, and has been diagnosed, clinically, as having borderline personality disorder. The former is why I waited 10 years before getting the marriage convalidated.

Not trying to bash my second wife, just interested in hearing from anyone who knows of–or has received–a second annulment.

Thanks.


#2

Yes it has happend before .

Your “chances” have only to do with whether your marriage was valid or not at the time the vows took place.It’s possible if she was ill and undiagnosed/untreated at the time she would not have been able to contract a marriage. Go talk with your Priest and then the marriage tribunal.


#3

[quote=jreinert]A Catholic, I was married to a Catholic woman for less than 2 years back in 1985. Due to my substance abuse at the time, I petitioned–and was granted an annulment.

I married again, after treatment and continued recovery from substance abuse–although not in the Catholic Church, in 1990. In 2000 we had our marriage convalidated. I am now divorced and wonder what my chances are for a second annulment?

Briefly, the second woman I married had–and has–emotional problems, and has been diagnosed, clinically, as having borderline personality disorder. The former is why I waited 10 years before getting the marriage convalidated.

Not trying to bash my second wife, just interested in hearing from anyone who knows of–or has received–a second annulment.

Thanks.
[/quote]

A decree of nullity determines that a defect was present at the time the vows were exchanged. This defect could be one of form, one of intent, or one of consent.

So, yes, a defect could have existed at the time you married this woman-- either on your part or on hers. The fact that you had another marriage that was examined and found to have a defect has no bearing on whether or not this marriage has one. It very well may have.

I suggest you discuss your situation with a competent person in your diocese-- such as a canon lawyer or other advocate familiar with the tribunal process.


#4

That’s a good question. My divorce was final early this month and I’m wondering if I should petition for a 2nd annulment, too. My ex is an alcoholic - which I didn’t know at the time - and our brief marriage was anything but bliss.


#5

You mean to say that because I am defected and was ill and “undiasgnosed” when I wedded my husband that now my marriage is annulled in the eyes of the Catholic Church?

Is that right? What horrible sin I must have committed to be given such a fate! No wonder my father-in-law is abusive to me.

Crystal


#6

[quote=crystal] You mean to say that because I am defected and was ill and “undiasgnosed” when I wedded my husband that now my marriage is annulled in the eyes of the Catholic Church?
[/quote]

I have no idea what illness you have or had. Illness itself is not an impediment to a valid marriage.

A marriage is always presumed to be valid and Sacramental.

A marriage is only examined upon request by one of the spouses, and it goes through a formal tribunal process.

[quote=crystal] Is that right?
[/quote]

No, your marriage is not null. Your marriage is presumed to be valid and Sacramental.

[quote=crystal] What horrible sin I must have committed to be given such a fate!
[/quote]

This is not Catholic teaching.

Remember, in the Scriptures people ask what sin the man born blind committed or what sin his parents must have committed. Jesus makes it clear that ailments are not a punishment for sin-- neither our own nor our ancestors.

[quote=crystal] No wonder my father-in-law is abusive to me.
[/quote]

No person has a right or reason to be abusive to another person. Your father in law is wrong to do so. Your husband should stand up and protect you from such abuse, and if your father in law will not discontinue his abuse, then he should be cut out of your lives until such time as his behavior changes.


#7

[quote=Philena]That’s a good question. My divorce was final early this month and I’m wondering if I should petition for a 2nd annulment, too. My ex is an alcoholic - which I didn’t know at the time - and our brief marriage was anything but bliss.
[/quote]

You should definitely discuss this with a compentent authority in the church-- contact your local priest to start.


#8

I’m really having trouble with this concept of annulment (divorce) in the Catholic church.

When does someone become responsible? :banghead: Courting/dating is a time to get to know a person, everything, the good and bad.

It sounds like, after two tries, you need to take responsibility. No more chances! :mad:

I gave myself one chance. I have yet to take that chance because I have not found the person I have confidence can weather the bad.


#9

With all due respect, I hope you are neither a Catholic priest nor a member of the Marriage Tribunal. I have spoken to both, and have received nothing but encouragement from them.

If your definition of annulment is equivalent to the definition of divorce, then, I can understand where you are coming from. However, in the Catholic Church, an annulment is something quite different from a civil divorce.

I was not trying to defend my decision to seek a second annulment–I was merely posing the question as to its chances of success, based, hopefully, on other’s experience.

Peace.


#10

[quote=LeahInancsi] I’m really having trouble with this concept of annulment (divorce) in the Catholic church.
[/quote]

Clearly you don’t understand what a decree of nullity is if you put “divorce” in parentheses. A decree of nullity is not a divorce.

I’d recommend the book Annulment: The Wedding That Was by Michael Smith Foster if you want to learn what the Church teaching is on the subject.

[quote=LeahInancsi] I’m really having trouble with this concept When does someone become responsible? :banghead: Courting/dating is a time to get to know a person, everything, the good and bad.
[/quote]

In general, you are correct, dating/courting is the time to get to know someone. However, it is possible to be deceived by another person.

Every marriage is presumed to be valid and sacramental. But, there are many reasons that a marriage that appeared to be validly contracted had one or more defects upon examination.

[quote=LeahInancsi] It sounds like, after two tries, you need to take responsibility. No more chances! :mad:
[/quote]

You lay blame where you do not have the facts. If the Church found a valid reason that the marriage was invalid then it is not your place to question it. She need not take responsibility for being deceived, as that is not her fault.

It is for a church tribunal to decide.

[quote=LeahInancsi] I gave myself one chance. I have yet to take that chance because I have not found the person I have confidence can weather the bad.
[/quote]

And that is your decision to make.


#11

americancatholic.org/Messenger/Sep1998/feature1.asp


#12

Heck, I have a cousin that has had four annulments. Apparently if you have enough money and know the right people, its no problem getting an annulment for little or no reason.


#13

[quote=SnorterLuster]Heck, I have a cousin that has had four annulments. Apparently if you have enough money and know the right people, its no problem getting an annulment for little or no reason.
[/quote]

Decrees of nullity are there for everybody, even those who have no means for an offering. People are under the misconception that they have to “pay” to have the marriage reviewed. If one can’t afford it, one can still obtain an annulment.


#14

I’m thinking that pretty much anyone can get an annulment. That’s kind of upsetting, because it makes me feel as if any marriage can be ruled as invalid. We all go through trials in marriage, it’s how you get through them. If you are in the process of getting a divorce, most of the time it is because one or both weren’t in the right state of mind when they got married. Or they really didn’t fully understand the meaning and committment of marriage. This means that the marriage was invalid for a few reasons. For the person wanting the divorce he/she didn’t fully comprehend what marriage is about and the meaning of it, and for the other party involved they were misled into thinking this person was ready when they really weren’t. So anyone going through a divorce could probably argue, if they wanted to spend the time doing so, and be granted an annulment.


#15

[quote=SnorterLuster]Heck, I have a cousin that has had four annulments. Apparently if you have enough money and know the right people, its no problem getting an annulment for little or no reason.
[/quote]

Unless you have actual evidence that the decisions of the tribunals involved were not legitimately made, you might consider the fact that the Church considers both libel and slander to be serious sins.

You have imugned the integrity and truthfulness of official actions of the Church and those who made those decisions. You are most welcome to have opinions as to whether or not annulments are too frequently made, or may be made for reasons that you do not understand or do not consider sufficient, but you are suggesting without any further facts that that the decisions in your cousin’s cases were either obtained fraudulently or through corruption.

You might want to take a look at what the CCC has to say about gossip and the objective sinfulness thereof.


#16

In response to LuvMyKids, I want to say that in essence I agree with you, though I don’t think the percentage of annulments granted is as high as many people might think (I don’t personally know what that percentage is, but I am sure it could be determined with some research).

But you alluded to a bigger issue, and I can only add to what you wrote by using the term “sacramental marriage” or the sacrament of Matrimony. Because of the emotional problems my ex-wife had and has, I do not believe that she had the capacity to enter into a Sacramental marriage. That is my opinion on the matter.

Naturally, as one who believes my salvation rests in the Catholic Church, I can only hope and pray that the Tribunal agrees with my assessment and the written statements of my witnesses. If not, then I will have to reconcile myself to live out my life as a single person, following the moral dictates of the Church.

I certainly hope and pray for the former, but I have to be willing to accept the latter.

Thank you for your thoughtful comments.


#17

I think the rate of annulments are so high because as a country, as families and as a church we have done a horribly bad job of promoting , supporting and teaching about healthy sacramental marriages. People are contracting marriages for the wrong reasons and we generally know it and say nothing because it is their right to make mistakes .


#18

[quote=otm]Unless you have actual evidence that the decisions of the tribunals involved were not legitimately made, you might consider the fact that the Church considers both libel and slander to be serious sins.

You have imugned the integrity and truthfulness of official actions of the Church and those who made those decisions. You are most welcome to have opinions as to whether or not annulments are too frequently made, or may be made for reasons that you do not understand or do not consider sufficient, but you are suggesting without any further facts that that the decisions in your cousin’s cases were either obtained fraudulently or through corruption.

You might want to take a look at what the CCC has to say about gossip and the objective sinfulness thereof.
[/quote]

I don’t think I made any accusation in my statement. Read my post carefully, I never mentioned anyone except my cousin. As far as the expense goes, apparently his diocese charges for annulments on a sliding scale. He as a very high income so he has said the he could have bought a new car for what each of his annulments has cost. He is music director at his parish so three of his annulments have been pushed through in a rapid manner by his parish priest. His most recent escapade, he divorced his wife, received an annulment, and married his organist all within a year. As he commented after this annulment, it doesn’t hurt to know people in high places.

If you are going to jump to conclusions, at least read what people write and try to jump to the correct conclusion. You might read the CCC for information about false accusations and sinfulness thereof.


#19

[quote=SnorterLuster]I don’t think I made any accusation in my statement. Read my post carefully, I never mentioned anyone except my cousin. As far as the expense goes, apparently his diocese charges for annulments on a sliding scale. He as a very high income so he has said the he could have bought a new car for what each of his annulments has cost. He is music director at his parish so three of his annulments have been pushed through in a rapid manner by his parish priest. His most recent escapade, he divorced his wife, received an annulment, and married his organist all within a year. As he commented after this annulment, it doesn’t hurt to know people in high places.

If you are going to jump to conclusions, at least read what people write and try to jump to the correct conclusion. You might read the CCC for information about false accusations and sinfulness thereof.
[/quote]

He’s lying to you then. Annulments even in diocese with high costs of living rarely cost more than 3 or 4 Thousand. MDon’t hink you can buy a new car for that.Most Diocese charge less thant 500 and many charge nothing at all.

The church should require lengthy counseling for a person with more than one failed marriage. Clearly there is some impediment that prevents them from making a good judgement on a spouse.

BTW you mention his friends in high places. We assume you mean sitting on the marriage tribunal. You accused them of favoring his petition over others and possible finding in favor because he has clout. This is a serious accusation indeed if it is true.


#20

From the website-

  1. Are annulments expensive?

Fees associated with the annulment process vary within the U.S. Most tribunals charge between $200 and $1,000 for a standard nullity case. Fees are typically payable over time, and may be reduced or even eliminated in cases of financial difficulty. Other expenses may be incurred when consultation with medical, psychological, or other experts is needed.

  1. How long does it take to get an annulment?

It usually takes 12 to 18 months to complete the entire process.

usccb.org/laity/marriage/marriagefaqs.shtml


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