Seder meal really the last Supper and is it relevant to learn about?


#1

Hello -

I am a member of a Catholic organization that wants to invite a Jewish convert to speak on the topic of the Seder meal and its symbolism/ how it relates to the Eucharist. They are having the speaker walk us through a Seder meal as a type of Lenten reflection (i.e., this is what Christ would have eaten, this is how it relate to our faith history, etc). Afterward, they are saying we need to have a light meal in keeping with the Seder tradition. I feel very uncertain about this. If we are not having an actual Seder, then I wonder why do we have to follow the tradition of a light meal afterward?? And why must this take 2 hours?? I am not feeling good about this. I am concerned that, while not intended, this is would be not respectful to Christ who gave us our new covenant, or to our Jewish brothers and sisters (I would be concerned if I saw someone trying to explain a “mock” version of the mass, even if they were a former Catholic!). I have found several conflicting articles on this topic, including this one written by a Jewish person who said that Christ did not celebrate the Seder as His Passover meal the way it is practiced today since this practice that is today came into existence in 70 AD.
Does this have merit?

Do my concerns have merit or am I over thinking this or overly sensitive? I have tried to speak up about this and have been brushed aside. If this is someone harmful or disrespectful and I need to have a reference to approach our leaders. Thank you for your help.


#2

I would recommend reviewing this subject with Dr. Scott Hahn.

https://stpaulcenter.com/the-fourth-cup/

It’s only 54 minutes and he goes into detail on the Seder meal.

He also has a more in depth book by the same title. Definitely worth the read.

After listening to the talk and reading the book I for one would be interested in getting insight from a Jewish convert to see how it lines up with what Dr. Hahn presented.

Hope this helps,

God Bless

I missed this part the first time through because my mind went straight to the Fourth Cup. Yeah I think you have a right to question this. I agree, if this is just a talk about the Seder tradition I don’t see why you have to also perform some part of the tradition. The only thing in my mind that it is no big deal is if it too is for educational purposes.


#3

I’ve been to a couple of Seder Meals and there is nothing to worry about.

First off, the ritual is performed where you eat small bits of bitter herbs, and unleavened bread and as Jewish Tradition goes, you should be finishing with a lamb dinner.

Just beware, you are asked to drink from the cup of wine, four times. The first time my group of CCD Teachers and other Parish workers celebrated the Seder, we drank enough each time to have a light buzz at the end of the meal. So, just take a sip. :smiley:

As far as Jesus having a Seder Meal, the timing is conflicting between the Synoptic Gospels and St John’s Gospel.

To make a long story short, after reading Pope Benedict XVI’s book, Jesus of Nazareth, I lean with him in that John’s gospel is probably more accurate to the timing. In that, it’s believed that Jesus celebrated the Seder Meal prior to the Official Temple Passover Supper, which would’ve been eaten on Saturday, Jesus knowing he would not be around, celebrated the Passover Supper earlier, perhaps on Wednesday Evening.

In all, it’s a rich learning experience and connects us very much to the Mass.

Jim


#4

It is a mortal sin for Catholics to participate in Seder meals. Seder meals were apart of the ceremonies used before the coming of Christ in its anticipation. To participate in one of these would be an outward expression of belief that Christ will come. But Christ has already come. Our outward actions must correspond with our interior beliefs.


#5

Wrong, it’s not a sin

Jim


#6

If you are invited by a Jewish family, I do not believe it is a sin to participate in their Seder meal.
I do think it is wrong for Catholic groups to get together and have their simulated Seder meal. To me, that seems like an insult to Jewish people. Do we want them getting together and simulating our mass? There is no purpose.

I think there is some dispute if today’s Seder meals are the same as 1st Jewish Passover meals.
As yo the question “was the last supper a Passover celebration”, I strongly recommend Pope Beneicts book “Jesus of Nazreth”, the 2nd volume (by publication date) that deals with Holy Week. He covers all of the arguments in detail.


#7

The Angelic Doctor would beg to differ.


#8

Is it more important to honour God or to honour fellow man? You can’t choose both.


#9

I am not for sure what you mean by this comment? Is it related to you comment about St Thomas Aquinas? If so, I would like to see a reference to his statement.


#10

Does this help:

‘Christianized’ Seder Meals


#11

I attended one when I was Episcopalian. Definitely mis-judged the amount of wine.


#12

Exactly. This brings to mind the “Tantum Ergo”…after all, what does “novo cedat ritui” mean, given the context that the hymn is on the Eucharist? It’s a beautiful expression of the fulfillment of the Old Covenant by the New.


#13

This really seems more about a Christian adopting the old law customs and basically “Judaising.” That’s not happening here.


#14

What’s the text from ?

Keep in mind that during St Thomas Aquinas day, anti-semitism was common and accepted among Christians and he would’ve discouraged Christians from adopting Jewish traditions such as a Seder Meal.

However, the OP isn’t suggesting that the Seder Meal will replace the Eucharist, but it’s an experience of that tradition which Jesus along with Mary and Joseph would have observed.

Jim


#15

Exactly how were thirteenth-century Catholics “anti-Semitic”?

The Seder meal was replaced with the Eucharistic sacrifice when the Old Covenant was fulfilled by the New. This is what St. Thomas Aquinas meant by the words “novo cedat ritui” in the Eucharistic hymn, the “Tantum Ergo”. By participating in a celebration like that, a Catholic would give the impression that he does not believe this fulfillment has arrived. Such an action gives the impression of denying the Christian faith and the fact that Christ is the Messiah.


#16

Are you that naive ?

Anti-semitism was alive and well since the death of Jesus Christ.

Even today it still exist.

Heck, Peter the Hermit led an unofficial crusade and wiped out an entire village of Jews in Eastern Europe, on their way to the East, which they never made it to.

The Seder Meal hasn’t been replaced by Jews and there is no harm in Christians experiencing it without replacing it with the Eucharist.

I met a Jewish convert to Catholicism who told me that he was amazed at how many traditions from Judaism, he saw in Catholicism.

Jews are our brothers and sisters, and knowledge about Jesus comes through them,

Jim


#17

Anti Semitism has nothing to do with Seder meals.


#18

Right, Anti-Semitism has nothing to do with Seder Meals.

It has to do with quoting writings from 800 years ago when anti-semitism was well accepted by members of the Church and society overall.

Jim


#19

Is the Angelic Doctor’s teaching on Old Testament rituals anti-semitic?


#20

Who is the Angelic Doctor ?

Jim


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