Sedevacantists

Sedevacantists are a type of traditional catholics. A famous sedevacantist is Mel gibson who supports the death penalty. I am wondering, why does he support it while current Romen Catholic don’t?

Poor catechesis, probably.

I thought Mel Gibson was a follower of the SSPX?

From Worthiness to Receive Holy Communion by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger

  1. Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia. For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion. While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. There may be a** legitimate** diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia.

The Church does not support the death penalty’s application given current circumstances. It still upholds the teaching that it can be used justly given certain conditions. It’s very similar to just war doctrine. The Church teaches war can be a just means under certain circumstances, even though Pope Pius XII taught that “the idea of war as an apt and proportionate means of solving international conflicts is now out of date.” Some might argue that the death penalty as a proportionate means of portecting public peace and order is now out of date as well.

Mel is a Sedevacantist hence he isnt an SSPX follower. His father sometimes came to our church, but not any more. Mel has his own priest accompany him wherever he goes… He still says mass daily.

I was under the impression (in my catechism teaching) that there is a God given right and Catholic teaching, to allow a state to have the death penalty on the grounds that being exectuted will not prevent the soul being saved as the state always granted extreme unction.

** the state always granted extreme unction.**

Since when has the secular state administered the Sacraments?

A Priest of course, not the state itself.

State always granted A Priest to give the Sacrament.

Thanks Nick

I thought that was self explanitory… Even the chinese hishops dont do that… lol.

I thought Mel Gibson was a follower of the SSPX?

He used to be.

He’s now Sedevacantist.

I remember an TV interview he did sometime around the release of The Passion of the Christ. Was it O’Reilly Factor?

Mel said something to the effect that he had great respect for John Paul II as Bishop of Rome, but that he personally didn’t consider him a legitimate successor to the Apostle Peter.

The interviewer didn’t pick up on it, but I did, having done apologetics with several Sedevacantists.

Sede’s are a little different – some believe the Papacy ended at different points starting with Vatican 1 (one). Some are Vatican II Sedes. Some became Sedes when Pope John Paul II died, based on unapproved private revelation.

Generally, they’re good people. They mean well, but they have caused a lot of headaches.

I personally believe it would be IMPOSSIBLE for the Body of Christ to survive since the late 1960’s without a visible head. A headless body would have died long ago. Mine is more of a philosophical objection based on mystical theology.

That is, a headless Mystical Body of Christ on earth would die!

But that’s just my opinion, and many Sede’s have complex arguments for their positions that are way over my head.

And with regards to the Original Topic … why Mel would support the death penalty. I’d say it depends on his view of justice and if God should execute justice directly, or if He uses human instruments to do so.

Personally, I don’t support the Death Penalty, only because I think the State allows too many of its citizens (the unborn) to be murdered already. Why add more names to the list? I believe life in prison is a more severe execution of justice and a more unpleasant sentence than death.

But I do support the idea of a Just War. If war is at your doorstep, you can’t pull the sheets over your head and wish it away, you must fight. You have no choice when war is upon you.

God Bless!

– Mary Ann

Sedevacantists are not Catholic- traditional or otherwise. I agree many sedes believe they are upholding Catholic tradition, etc., but I would argue that they are not truly Catholic.

There is no Catholic doctrine against the legitimate power of the state to impose a death penalty. Even JPII stated that. JPII and may current Catholics feel there is not a need for the death penalty today.

Mark Wyatt
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com

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