Seeking miracles

One of the prots biggest arguments is that with all of the miracles and apparitions, we are “seeking signs” which Jesus preached against. And yet I have not seen one example of a saint “seeking” the miracle or vision ascribed to them.

Am I wrong? Is there any example of a saint initially “seeking” the miracle, vision, or apparition ascribed to that saint?

Well, the prots would say that NO miracles are of divine origin (which, come to think about it, is kinda weird). So all “visions” by Catholics are phony, and thus reflect the Saint’s own desire, even if it is a subconscious desire.

But I’m not sure how this can be one of their “biggest arguments” (in your words), because NO Catholic is EVER required to accept ANY post-apostolic revelation. These are ALL considered private revelation, and may be freely accepted (within limits) or rejected (without limits) by any Catholic (which is NOT true of ANYTHING that can be considered the Doctrine of the Church).

If a protestant wants to debate Lourdes or Fatima or whatever, I will say, “OK, fine. Maybe that was bogus. So what?”

The fact that the Church has formally “approved” certain events does NOT mean that the Church says they are true, but only that they are not contrary to the Faith, and the Faithful are free to believe them and teach about them. We may personally reject ALL such teachings, but we are not free to publicly challenge the Church’s approval and claim that the Church was in error in approving [whatever]. We may publicly state our disbelief as our own personal opinion, and we are free to publicly present our own arguments to support our position (and invite discussion), but we may not claim that our opinion is superior to the Church.

Pax Christi!

The Church rarely approves and very often rejects these signs. Approved signs were not sought-out and were usually flat-out UNsought.

Side comment: I’ve heard that the term ‘prot’ is kinda rude, but I’m not certain…

God bless.

Pax Christi!

The Church rarely approves and very often rejects these signs. Approved signs were not sought-out and were usually flat-out UNsought.

Side comment: I’ve heard that the term ‘prot’ is kinda rude, but I’m not certain…

God bless.

We all receive miracles and it is up to us to say we believe in them or not. Personally I do, but what is important to keep in mind is that we shall not WORSHIP a miracle, we must WORSHIP the one who did provide the miracle.

PS: If you search for a miracle you will never find one.

Which “Prot” are you refering too? Some Protestant groups do believe and claim miracles and healings, mostly the pentacostal/charimatic kind. Some of the more fundamentalist groups claim that the Biblical miracles are real but ended with the final book of the Bible and God is not now in the miracle business. Liberal Protestant groups would claim that the miracles of the Bible are stories and don’t believe in miracles anyway. The fundamentalist believing in past miracles but not now is kinda curious considering that they think they are so true to the literal scripture. I think that you are probably thinking of the fundamentalist type. If you are in discussions with these types and they bring up saints inform them that the first step in sainthood is how that person lived out their lives and if that life is marked by vitue and holiness, not by visions or miracles. Not every saint had visions or miracles attributed to them in their life time anyway and visions and miracles are not what the Church looks for in a saint. Now in a final determination, there does has to be 2 miracles attributed to the intercession of the saint, but that is after death, not during the saints life.

that is right, just ask King Herod who had Jesus stand before him and he asked Jesus for one and Jesus didn’t even reply to him.

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.