seeking traditionalist opinions


#1

I have never had the opportunity to attend the Traditionasl Latin Mass. I, in my present situation, attend the Novus Ordo with my parents. I have read many books from TAN publications, which are Traditionalist, and many are classics, some hundreds of years old.
I own and have read such books as The Catechism Of the Council Of Trent, The Canons and Decrees of the Council of Trent, the Vatican Series set of books on Vatican Council II,
the latest version of The Code of Canon Law, The Sources of Catholic Dogma(Denzinger),
Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma(Dr. Ludwig Ott),and over 100 more. I only mention this to let it be understood that I have become as familiar with the Traditionalist movement as I
can, by the written word. The Mass I must attend at present, causes me some concern.
The noise level is normally such that it is impossible for me to hear the lectors give the first two readings. A perfectly good P.A. equipt "cry room" goes completely unused while numerous infants cry throughout Mass. Our priest completely skips the Homily often,and when he does perform one, it is seldom longer than 1 minute long. On numerous ocassions during Mass, our priest will take a crying infant(or two) in his arms as he walks around talking(usually during one of his rare, longer Homilies. He gives confession outside on the sidewalk(where he can often be found smoking before Mass). Confessions are always face to face, with no other option, even though the 8 year old church has a confessional.
His penance is never a traditional prayer(s), but always something like "pray for rain".My question is basically : Do any of these type of things occur before or during a Traditional
Mass ? I have read about the Mass of Pope Pius V, and it seems that the Mass that I must for now attend, is comparatively without sanctity.There are many other things I could describe(like never being able to light a candle because no provisions are made to do so).
I would just like to know if the Traditional Mass is as quiet and dignified(and sanctified) as I have been led to believe due to the many Traditionalist books I have read. i haven't even ever met a Traditionalist Catholic to my knowlege. I apologize for such a long post, but this
issue(s) have been on my mind for a long time, and there is an uneasy feeling about the whole thing. Any information is greatly welcome. Thank You Very Much.


#2

Well, some of those things would bug me too - I don’t know that I would give a “walking” confession, esp. while he smokes, since I’m an ex-smoker and can’t stand the smell now.

However, I attended my first Latin Mass today (Solemnity of the Assumption), and so as a holy day of obligation, many showed up. Large families, old & young, veiled and not. And yes, babies cried (and no, no cry room) and kids fussed; people sneezed & coughed.

I was sitting in the second row from the front and the Mass was probably an hour & fifteen minutes at least. Sure, there were times when it was “noisy” but hey - we’re still human. Oddly, things quieted down and it was still just as amazing.

Maybe a daily Latin low Mass is very quiet, but I’m sure Sunday Masses have their fair share of noise.

Readings and Homily were in English - all the rest in Latin, except the Kyrie, which of course is Greek.

Hope you get the chance to find a new parish and one with a Latin Mass!

God Bless


#3

No not at all! I go to the traditional mass ever once and a while they are never like that. My parish that I go to only does mass in the Ordinary Form, but there is a oratory in my town that offers the Extraordinary Form of the Mass. You should write a letter to the bishop or the dioceses about that. My parish is nothing like that I feel bad that you have to go through that. All aside the traditional Mass is beautiful and the one I go to is a low mass so trust me it is plenty quiet.:hmmm:


#4

I don't know where you live but if you are uncomfortable in your present situation you can certainly seek out another parish. And the Traditionalist Mass is certainly an option provided it is approved by the local bishop. I would check on that first. I think there are two different groups who are approved. We have two different approved groups in K.C. area.

Good luck.

:thumbsup:


#5

I would be most concerned if the sound of small children/babies were absent from mass-Parents should do their best to comfort/quiet children but babies are known for crying.

No children=no future for that parish unless you there are a lot of converts!


#6

Oh MY!!! How I LOVE the traditional Latin Mass. If you are able to get to one, please do! You will never go back. I am a ex=protestant who converted to the Catholic Church through the Latin Mass! For 7 years I had nothing, but the Latin Mass. Then I got married and moved and now the nearest Latin Mass is 3 hours away. And every Sunday I cry going to New Order Mass (aka regular english mass) where women and men dress like they are going to the beach and there is so little reverence. If I had the money to move where there was a Latin Mass, I would in a heart beat!

Try Latin Mass, you will never want to go back to N.O Mass.


#7

Do infants cry during the TLM?
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

This is actually one of the few things I actually miss from the OF Mass. The lack of crying infants. At my parish infants cry constantly, and children cry, have temper-tantrums, make weird and annoying noises, run up the aisle. Keep in mind that Traditional families tend to have large families so there are a lot of little kids and infants at Mass. Furthermore, there is no PA used except for the sermon.

My confessor probably thinks I hate kids. I don’t. I hate noise.


#8

If by quiet, you're asking if people are chit-chatting, then in my experience, no way. The attendees tend to be extremely focused on what is happening on the altar.

Is there coughing or sneezing, of course. Maybe even loud wheezing. :).

Ate babies crying? Sure. Babies are a blessing.

But folks quietly kneel and pray before and after mass.


#9

[quote="TrueLight, post:8, topic:295387"]

Are babies crying? Sure. Babies are a blessing.

[/quote]

:thumbsup:


#10

There is no perfect Mass. Even when the classics you have read were written, people made noise during Mass or weren't paying strictest attention, and not all homilies were excellent. Confessions in a place other than a confessional were very common in the past. And what was called a confessional was not always the closed boxes we are used to now.

Yes, Mass should be reverant, but I think you are borrowing trouble by comparing your ordinary parish to the parishes of the amazing priest Saints like John Vianney. Or to the ideal presented in Vactican publications.

Instead of focusing on what is wrong, focus on what is right. The love of children and families expressed by your priest is one very good thing. Sit down and make a quick list of a few positive things (youth program, CCD, SVP society, choir, etc.) and turn your focus to those things. It will be better for your peace of mind and better for your faith development.


#11

[quote="Boulder257, post:9, topic:295387"]
:thumbsup:

[/quote]

Thanks for quietly fixing my typo. :)


#12

I don’t understand what any of this has to do with attending the EF. There are still people who talk during the EF Mass, there are still babies that cry during the EF Mass, and as for sermons they usually only happen on Holy days of obligation and Sundays (well in my parish that is). My priest uses the confessional booths but I really don’t see the harm in a priest hearing confessions on the street. Plus I don’t believe smoking is considered a sin so I fail to see what that has to do with anything. Also there are saints who have given what many may consider “odd” penances. For instance Philip Neri told a lady who confessed gossiping that she should take a pillow to the roof and cut it open and spread the feathers all over Rome. When she had done this she went back to him and he told her to now pick up every feather and put it back in the pillow. The lady said this was impossible and he said this is exactly the type of damage gossip does to our neighbor. There was another instance where he assigned the popes grandnephew the penance to carry his little dog everywhere he went in order to mortify the mans pride. If odd penances are a sign of anything then they’re a sign of God’s call for us to be obedient to Him. If your priest says “pray for rain” then pray for rain! As for your priest holding babies while giving his sermon well I really don’t see the harm in this; i mean he is after all the Fr. of his parish.

I don’t know sometimes I feel we have this “look he heals on the Sabbath” attitude which should be rooted out and replaced with good Christ like charity.


#13

My question is basically : Do any of these type of things occur before or during a Traditional
Mass ?

I would just like to know if the Traditional Mass is as quiet and dignified(and sanctified) as I have been led to believe due to the many Traditionalist books I have read.

Thomist, to answer your first question: no. Things like that did not occur, at least not in my parish. Also, believe it or not (again, I can only speak for the parish I grew up in), most people did not bring their infants to Mass in those days. One parent stayed home with the children while the other went to Mass. When that parent came back home, the other one went. In those days, since families were intact, people didn't feel they had to make a statement by always doing things "as a family". Also, we had plenty of Sunday Masses to choose from.

To answer your second question: yes, they are.


#14

[quote="Lormar, post:13, topic:295387"]
Thomist, to answer your first question: no. Things like that did not occur, at least not in my parish. Also, believe it or not (again, I can only speak for the parish I grew up in), most people did not bring their infants to Mass in those days. One parent stayed home with the children while the other went to Mass. When that parent came back home, the other one went. In those days, since families were intact, people didn't feel they had to make a statement by always doing things "as a family". Also, we had plenty of Sunday Masses to choose from.

To answer your second question: yes, they are.

[/quote]

That part is very true. In fact, in the past many families didn't even bring toddlers or pre-schoolers to Mass. Young children - below say 4 or 5 - usually stayed home with with a family member or servent. That person would then go to a different Mass. This is one of the advantageous of large families and extended families - there is always someone to watch the baby! :D


#15

[quote="Mrs_Sally, post:14, topic:295387"]
That part is very true. In fact, in the past many families didn't even bring toddlers or pre-schoolers to Mass. Young children - below say 4 or 5 - usually stayed home with with a family member or servent. That person would then go to a different Mass. This is one of the advantageous of large families and extended families - there is always someone to watch the baby! :D

[/quote]

I didn't know that. Very interesting.

Personally, I can't imagine starting to bring my children to Mass at age 5. I am very grateful they have been going since they were infants. They have a much better understanding of how to behave and greater patience than I think they would if they started going at age 5. Not saying my way is any better, it was just easier for me. And, after all, it's all about me :p

However, above all of that, I enjoy experiencing Mass as a family. We all saw the same thing at the same time, so it allows us to have discussions about things that may not have occured if we weren't together. It sparks further conversation, which I like.

I may have a crazy idea about parenting, but I think spending time together in Church is a good thing, especially when so young and impressionable.


#16

I went to Mass for a very few Sundays in a parish where the huge cry-room and nursery were empty. The parrisheners were so oblivious to the mass and homily, that they made no effort to quiet their babies. They just ignored them and let them run wild.

You could not hear the liturgy or the homily. I got the feeling that they were there only to fulfill their obligation and that's all.

It only took me a couple of weeks to find and register in a new parish.


#17

Thanks for your reply andrewstx. Pleased to make your aquaintance. The situation for me is as you described. Add to that the often completely “skipped” Holilies, confession being done outside on the sidewalk only(despite the almost new church’s confessional), and the use of about ten hymns(more Protestant tnan Catholic) constantly and it becomes a little much. My problem is that I have no other choice in Masses to attend at the present. I just
wondered if these “things” were common elsewhere.

                                                                                      Yours in Christ, thomist1.

#18

This thread is being closed because of its obvious bias. The situation of the OP has nothing to do with the form of the mass, but it's specific to his parish. Instead the question and answers all lead an unsuspecting non-Catholic who does not know better to think that this situation is typical of mass in the Ordinary Form, which no one has pointed out that is not the case.

If you're going to discuss the forms of the mass, do not post on this forum unless you are willing to discuss the holiness of the mass in both forms and give an honest appraisal of a situation rather than point to the form of the mass as the problem.

If there are any concerns or questions, feel free to PM me. Otherwise, this line of discussion is over.

CLOSED


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