I am not getting on any sort of comparison with Communism,as bad as it can take shape in many places and as far a worldview it may be
Nazism is over and done with. We ve already put the lid ti that grave.
Your issue is local now and tainted,and you are weighing in different things.Including polítics.
The underlying concept of a better society with the rights of workers paramount might b a tad simplistic, but is fundamentally a form of utopianism. Naive and impossible in practice, but I don’t see how it is inherently evil. And really, when you look at how workrs were treated in Britain in the mid-19th century, when Marx and Engels were developing Communist political and economic thought, you can’t say there wasn’t some justification in the observation that the working classes of Britain (and to one extent or another just about everywhere else) were being abused and exploited. Communism wasn’t the answer, but it did ask some fairly important questions.
And yet Marx’s theory never set out to kill millions. That may have been an inevitable consequence of Communism, but unlike Nazism, that was never the intention. Read Mein Kampf and tell me Hitler had any kind of noble, if deeply misplaced, higher goal.
And still, even with Communism producing the misery it did, that doesn’t mean Antifa is Communist, so it really is just you trying to create a moral equivalency. Antifas is mainly just a pack of naive kids who, like those that came before them, going back eighty years, want to thump some fascists.
i can’t see how anyone can deny the horror that communism has wrought on this world just so one can say one killer is worse than another.
no one is defending anyone when we condemn both but the left doesn’t want to condemn their own.
what is antifa’s ideology then? why do they appropriate communist symbolism?
Marxism is an evil ideology that is predicated on theft of personal property. Marx was just a evil and inept economist. But Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and anyone else who led communism was a Hitler.
of course you won’t, if you did you would realize you don’t have an argument.
neither ideology is dead and that is the problem. instead of confronting all evil you want to pick which evil you want to use to help your cause.
I’ve read the Communist Manifesto. The solution is absurd and unworkable, which is how you end up with the Maos, Stalins and Pol Pots, but Marx’s theory arose out of a real exploitation of the working classes of England.
Nazism arose out of a bizarre mixture of self-mythologization, Victorian racial theory nonsense, and an explicit desire to make the Aryans the Master Race.
I will not put Marx in the same basket with Hitler. And considering that Christendom has spent a good deal of its history essentially supporting systems of government where the common man hardly had any personal property at all, I fail to see how the Church meaningfully stood up for the right of personal property.
Well,Communism makes for another talk.
And I noted I didn t know the group. We have hoolighans too. And this Antifa may be in practice,worse,I do not know.
But there was a genocide,and humanity as a whole recognized a crime against humanity. That was my point. And the fact that the Nazi symbology was rejected and banned in different places .
We leave that talk about worldview for Another oppportunity. It will be vey interesting to discuss it with you.
Now,I prefer not to go local. As I try to avoid interfering. It was just a thought to share.
Read Marx’s ‘On the Jewish Question’.
we aren’t dealing with marx but with the variations espoused by the Maos, Stalins and Pol Pots. they are worse than hitler. their communism is what is in the world today.
If you say so…
so was the communist symbol. the wall was torn down. countries threw off the yoke of communism.
why do we want it here and why now after so many gave their lives in vietnam and korea???
there is no moral difference. killers are killers.
Exactly. Marx was naive, though I do credit him with bringing issues of social class as important elements of history, so it isn’t all negative. But there was no reinterpretation of Nazi theory but some future generations of Nazi thinkers; Nazism was an unholy and vile ideology from the ground up. It wasn’t just a matter of bad interpretation or naive political theory unworkable in practice, Nazism was both explicitly vile in its underlying philosophy and how that philosophy should be applied in practice.
I won’t defend Communism, and readily admit it has lead to untold amounts of human suffering, but you’re not going to find the justification for that suffering in the Communist Manifesto and Das Kapital, whereas you read Mein Kampf and you’re looking at a document that expressly lays out a path of human suffering, even revels in making certain groups of people suffer.
There hasn’t been a meaningful Communist movement in the US since the 1930s. There is, however, a long history of White Supremacy.
this isn’t about marx or his writings. this is about the social communist who are morally equivalent to hitler.
you need marx so you can deny moral equivalency but the argument doesn’t hold water
The Holocaust has a place of its own.
Out of respect,that is what it deserves.
There will be another oppportunity to bring Communism into discussions. As a Chrisitian,our worldviews are very different. That alone merits more time.
we have a meaningful communist movement now in antifa.
food for thought
What’s not appreciated is that Nazism is a form of socialism. In fact, the term Nazi stands for the National Socialist German Workers’ Party. The unspeakable acts of Adolf Hitler’s Nazis pale in comparison with the horrors committed by the communists in the former Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and the People’s Republic of China. Between 1917 and 1987, Vladimir Lenin, Josef Stalin and their successors murdered and were otherwise responsible for the deaths of 62 million of their own people. Between 1949 and 1987, China’s communists, led by Mao Zedong and his successors, murdered and were otherwise responsible for the deaths of 76 million Chinese. The most authoritative tally of history’s most murderous regimes is documented on University of Hawaii professor Rudolph J. Rummel’s website and in his book “Death by Government.”
Agreed we are all flawed sinners.
But PLEASE tell me you are not justifying the horrors of fascism, AND the horrors of communism, with any belief that “the ends justify the means.”
A fundamental flaw with both fascism and communism is the centralization of incredible power in the hands of just a few. Add to that the drive that many evil people have for power over others and you have a setting where, with fascism and communism, evil people will have incredible power. This can be found in nearly every communist nation.
Great post! This should not be a right/left issue, but an issue of extremism. If I were an apologist for the “right” I would not be defending Nazis or casting them as victims. I would be working hard to differentiate what I believe from what they believe. My tactics from their tactics.
Nancy Pelosi did a good thing when she denounced the violent response of Antifa.
As an outsider, it seems like race is still a big issue in America. I watch YouTube videos about groups like Antifa who are quick to label white people racist and always harp on about so-called ‘white privilege.’ It’s crazy! The world has changed since the 1960s and there has been a black President! Isn’t it time to focus on the REAL issue facing the western world: Islamic migration and extremism.