Senators McCain, Murphy join massive Ukraine anti-government protest, threaten sanctions


#1

foxnews.com/politics/2013/12/15/senators-mccain-murphy-join-massive-ukraine-anti-government-protest-threaten/

                                             Now let me understand this correctly. There is so little freedom in Ukraine under the presidency of Viktor Yanukovych, that an international trouble maker like John McCain can fly there and take part in the pro-EU protests :D

#2

I really struggle with this. It isn’t the way American diplomacy is supposed to work. As disasterous as our foreign policy has been under the current regime, it is still the job of the executive branch.

Jon


#3

Aren’t there enough problems in this country, that they have to go involve themselves in some other country’s problems?


#4

[quote="Seamus_L, post:1, topic:348234"]
foxnews.com/politics/2013/12/15/senators-mccain-murphy-join-massive-ukraine-anti-government-protest-threaten/

                                             Now let me understand this correctly. There is so little freedom in Ukraine under the presidency of Viktor Yanukovych, that an international trouble maker like John McCain can fly there and take part in the pro-EU protests :D

[/quote]

Unless they're there under direction from the U.S. State Department, what are they doing and how will this help?:confused:


#5

archive.redstate.com/stories/the_parties/democrats/nancy_pelosi_brings_peace_to_the_middle_east


#6

It is really none of our business who Ukraine teams up with economically. The bad thing here is, if we stick our noses into this and Moscow turns of the gas to them AGAIN in Mid-Winter, who do you think they are going to turn to for cleaning up the mess?

Does anyone think the Ruskies care if a few hundred people freeze to death while they make a point, in order to keep a former satellite under control?


#7

McCain already has a bad reputation in Russia. This move just seems to be provocative.

The issues in Ukraine are extremely and deeply complex. The Ukraine is a largely arbitrary political identity or construct. The country is split. It’s nice to present an image of the Ukraine in a convenient Western filter - that this issue is about freedom or whatever - but in reality it has more to do with ethnicity and cultural and religious ties.

The pro-EU crowd tends to be young or ideologically motivated. The Ukraine is not economically ready for integration in the EU and to do so will have enormous consequences for their economy. The Ukrainian leadership needs to work with both Russia and the EU and avoid becoming a satellite or a pawn in anyone’s game. She needs to develop her own industries and economy and negotiate with both blocs deals that work well for all involved. Then she can consider formally joining some economic bloc - but right now the Ukraine needs both Russia (more Russia at present) and the EU.


#8

I think we have no business messing in Ukraine’s affairs. Let them make their own decisions and above all, may God’s holy will be done.


#9

McCain is the textbook case for term limits.


#10

I’m Ukrainian and what you say about the country being an artificial construct is false. The areas of present-day Ukraine, including Eastern Ukraine have been ethnically and linguistically Ukrainian for centuries (only that Crimea and southern Ukraine were home to Tatars, whose leadership incidentally came out to Kyiv to support the pro-European protests yesterday). These territories, all of their own accord formed a Ukrainian Republic 1917-1920 until the Red Army invaded.

By your logic, one can easily make the case that Spain is an artificial construct; or that today’s Russian Federation, based on the multitudinous ethnic territories it took over under Tsarist expansion, is too.

The hierarchies of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, and of all three Ukrainian Orthodox Churches (including the one subject to Moscow) have come out in support of closer European integration and each day of protests begins with a prayer service by church leaders from the Ukrainian Orthodox and/or Ukrainian Catholic.

I’m glad McCain came, just as I was glad when Reagan went to the Berlin Wall. The fact that the current leader of Ukraine, the corrupt and authoritarian Yanukovych, needs to be gone is a desire shared equally by Ukrainian and Russian-speaking Ukrainians. It has to do with justice, a desire for rule of law, and the end of Soviet-like authority, regardless of which religion a Ukrainian practices.


#11

Thanks for sharing your perspective! :thumbsup:


#12

[quote="SuperLuigi, post:11, topic:348234"]
Thanks for sharing your perspective! :thumbsup:

[/quote]

No probs. Thanks for listening! :thumbsup:


#13

Ukraine gets major economic assistance offer from Russia bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25411118

                            Mr Putin said the assistance was not "tied to any conditions".

#14

Uh-huh. If I were a Ukrainian, I’d be saying, “Why do I feel my leg being pulled?”


#15

Russia deal saved Ukraine from bankruptcy - PM Azarov
bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25427706

              It will be interesting to see what effect this has on the massive protests.

#16

Given Putin and Russian Government in general I can understand them wanting no part of it.


#17

Mr. Putin is an intimidator and a dangerous man and has joined in Russian and Russian Orthodox fashion in marrying the two for political leverage. The Russian Orthodox Hierarchy have an established history of tying themselves to the government.


#18

Former Ohio congressman Dennis Kucinich, suspects (and he’s not alone) this may be about eventually moving NATO into Ukraine huffingtonpost.com/dennis-j-kucinich/ukraine-nato_b_4435637.html I imagine the average Russian is as thrilled by the prospects of that as Americans were by Soviet long range missiles in Cuba.


#19

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