Sept 2010 issue US News & World Report Colleges & Universities


#1

...is out. It contains an emphasis on value--the net price per year at the best schools including scholarships, grants and loans--for the best schools in the nation. In this list of 50 schools, Notre Dame is the only Catholic school. However, Wall Street Journal also includes Notre Dame in its list of the best schools for business recruiters, making an education at Notre Dame a good investment if you're heading into business and still want to go to a Catholic institution.

There are many Catholic schools listed in the list, "A+ schools for B Students", who are good regionally, including St. Catherine University in MN, St Scholastica in MN, Dominican Univ, Canisius in NY, and St. Thomas Aquinas in CA, which the 'orthodox' book on Catholic colleges also includes. Many other Catholic schools are listed.

You can buy the magazine if it isn't sold out (always a favorite) or subscribe online for $20. for the premium ed which includes all the info on the schools. The list of best schools for business recruiters will be on the Wall Street Journal website and is a more expensive subscription, but might be available free, or by googling the list.


#2

Here's the list of the top 25 universities that business recruiters pick:

online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704554104575435563989873060.html

The list includes Notre Dame.


#3

Miami (OH) University, Oxford, OH An incredible school. Visit there and you'll want to go there. If you are looking for a place to go as an undergraduate, there is (IMHO) no place finer. Especially for business. It ranks second in the country for its commitment to teaching undergrads

In BusinessWeek magazine's latest ranking of undergraduate business programs, Miami's Farmer School of Business appears among the nation's top five percent, ranking sixth among public universities and colleges. (2010)

In the 2010 edition of America's Best Colleges, U.S. News ranks Miami's engineering program 26th in the nation in the category of "Best Undergraduate Engineering Programs where the highest degree is a bachelor's or master's."

Once again, Miami University has been identified as a best value in Kiplinger's annual list of the "100 Best Values in Public Colleges." (2010) Miami has appeared as a top 100 value every year since the first list was published in 1998.

Miami was named one of 30 schools in the United States that offers "an education comparable to that at Ivy League universities at a fraction of the price" in the book The Public Ivies: America's Flagship Universities.

Miami is among a select group of universities in the nation that have produced a Rhodes Scholar, a Truman Scholar, and a Goldwater Scholar in the same academic year. Other schools in this select group are Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Duke, Stanford, Syracuse, and the University of Washington.


#4

**Are you looking for a weak, watered down education that "business recruiters" value, or an education that will serve you for all of your life?

Any list that has Notre Dame & Washington State University in the top 25 has to be a joke!

Look at the Franciscan University of Steubenville, franciscan.edu/, or Ave Maria University, avemaria.edu/, or John Paul the Great University, jpcatholic.com/**

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark


#5

Woohoo!!! My favorite school is No. 2 – Texas A&M. Home of the Fightin’ Texas Aggies – okay. Geek moment done :smiley:


#6

[quote="Mark77, post:4, topic:212761"]
**Are you looking for a weak, watered down education that "business recruiters" value, or an education that will serve you for all of your life?

Any list that has Notre Dame & Washington State University in the top 25 has to be a joke!

Look at the Franciscan University of Steubenville, franciscan.edu/**, or Ave Maria University, avemaria.edu/, or John Paul the Great University, jpcatholic.com/

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark

[/quote]

Oh, brother. Weak, watered down education at ND? A quick comparison of the rigor of the admissions requirements of Notre Dame alongside any of the other schools you listed will rather quickly put that particular objection to rest.

I understand complaining about ND's Catholic identity...issues...But weak, watered down education? Not so much.

Anyways, back to the OP--I'll probably check out the list and the articles accompanying it this year, even though I've ignored it in recent years. I think we're edging closer and closer to the bursting of the education bubble...so many of these colleges, and the value of a college education itself, are simply overrated (And I'm sad to say, ND is included--$50K+ in tuition per year is simply unjustifiable). Recent college graduates are unemployed and underemployed at very high rates these days, so no course of study should be entered into without a lot of thought and planning.

Emphasizing value is incredibly important if someone hopes to make a wise and prudent decision regarding pursuing a college education these days.


#7

Jealousy plays a part in this IMO, but I think that the quest to "get into the best school possible for whatever major you want to major in" seems like a huge waste of time and money.


#8

[quote="LotusCarsLtd, post:7, topic:212761"]
Jealousy plays a part in this IMO, but I think that the quest to "get into the best school possible for whatever major you want to major in" seems like a huge waste of time and money.

[/quote]

Going to the "best" school for a particular program is actually quite important if one wants to go into academia or professional school.

Securing a tenure-track academic position is all about where you have studied, the strength of the program, and the scholars under whom you've worked. Just from my experience at Notre Dame, most of the tenured faculty had Ivy League PhD's (or comparable PhD's from the top programs in their fields). There is such competition even from Ivy League/top school graduates for the few tenure-track faculty positions that it's really difficult for someone coming from a school of lesser renown to succeed in academia.

I don't think the rule holds as firmly for professional schools, but it is still quite important. Someone who goes to a mid-level law school is probably never going to become a Supreme Court Justice, if you know what I mean.

For most people, I agree that it is a waste of time and money to go to the best school possible. But if you're capable and you hope to launch a career in a particular field, it's important to get the best education you can. That's just being realistic.


#9

I agree. Since you mentioned ND, I have a MA in Theology and a DMin from a small theological school. I love to write but never was able to get published. I got a second MA in Theology (Liturgical Studies) from ND in 2009. Since then I was sought out from publishers and have published 3 articles and have been sought out for other things as well. My diocese has also uses my services as a speaker. It seems the school does make a difference.


#10

[quote="Mark77, post:4, topic:212761"]
**Are you looking for a weak, watered down education that "business recruiters" value, or an education that will serve you for all of your life?

Any list that has Notre Dame & Washington State University in the top 25 has to be a joke!

Look at the Franciscan University of Steubenville, franciscan.edu/**, or Ave Maria University, avemaria.edu/, or John Paul the Great University, jpcatholic.com/

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark

[/quote]

I'm sorry to say but you have it the other way around, Franciscan University and the other uncompetitive and so-called orthodox colleges you mention are the joke. You don't go to college to read encyclicals or study the universal catechism because American universities are not intended to be seminaries. Rather, they are places that American youth can go and acquire the requisite skills needed for some purpose that would require a good degree from a recognized institution: law, medicine, business, education, engineering, etc.

If you hope to have a decent job in any of those fields, save maybe education, then it is imperative that you attend as reputable and sound a university as your GPA and SAT scores can muster. Once admitted then you don't even need to bother with a "watered down education", by which you probably mean the humanities, because instead you will have the opportunity to study math, science, economics, and all manner of things that are unrelated to (and therefore not in intrinsic opposition to) Catholic religious beliefs or cultural ideologies. After you graduate, or for fun on the side, you can then study the other "liberal arts" as a pastime.

I can tell you that Franciscan is not altogether that orthodox. Indeed I can think of four people in the theology department that you would very likely think were heretics (I think that they are in fact heretics). The truth is that FUS is just really successful at selling itself to people who are, apparently, very determined to believe in whatever they want to regardless of the evidence to the contrary. I suppose you could say the entire university is like one big crazy personal revelation to a specific group of Catholics that just need know that there is a school where they can go and not face "other ideas".


#11

[quote="JKsoren, post:10, topic:212761"]
I'm sorry to say but you have it the other way around, Franciscan University and the other uncompetitive and so-called orthodox colleges you mention are the joke. You don't go to college to read encyclicals or study the universal catechism because American universities are not intended to be seminaries. Rather, they are places that American youth can go and acquire the requisite skills needed for some purpose that would require a good degree from a recognized institution: law, medicine, business, education, engineering, etc.

If you hope to have a decent job in any of those fields, save maybe education, then it is imperative that you attend as reputable and sound a university as your GPA and SAT scores can muster. Once admitted then you don't even need to bother with a "watered down education", by which you probably mean the humanities, because instead you will have the opportunity to study math, science, economics, and all manner of things that are unrelated to (and therefore not in intrinsic opposition to) Catholic religious beliefs or cultural ideologies. After you graduate, or for fun on the side, you can then study the other "liberal arts" as a pastime.

I can tell you that Franciscan is not altogether that orthodox. Indeed I can think of four people in the theology department that you would very likely think were heretics (I think that they are in fact heretics). The truth is that FUS is just really successful at selling itself to people who are, apparently, very determined to believe in whatever they want to regardless of the evidence to the contrary. I suppose you could say the entire university is like one big crazy personal revelation to a specific group of Catholics that just need know that there is a school where they can go and not face "other ideas".

[/quote]

One of my best friends went to Franciscan as a freshman and then transferred to Miami (OH) as a sophomore. I asked him why he transferred and he said that FUS wasn't "realistic". He said he couldn't imagine a good number of the students there functioning in regular society. I'm sure there are many great positives about FUS, but I'll have to agree with JKsoren. Go to the best university your SAT can get you into.


#12

[quote="JKsoren, post:10, topic:212761"]
I'm sorry to say but you have it the other way around, Franciscan University and the other uncompetitive and so-called orthodox colleges you mention are the joke. You don't go to college to read encyclicals or study the universal catechism because American universities are not intended to be seminaries. Rather, they are places that American youth can go and acquire the requisite skills needed for some purpose that would require a good degree from a recognized institution: law, medicine, business, education, engineering, etc.

If you hope to have a decent job in any of those fields, save maybe education, then it is imperative that you attend as reputable and sound a university as your GPA and SAT scores can muster. Once admitted then you don't even need to bother with a "watered down education", by which you probably mean the humanities, because instead you will have the opportunity to study math, science, economics, and all manner of things that are unrelated to (and therefore not in intrinsic opposition to) Catholic religious beliefs or cultural ideologies. After you graduate, or for fun on the side, you can then study the other "liberal arts" as a pastime.

I can tell you that Franciscan is not altogether that orthodox. Indeed I can think of four people in the theology department that you would very likely think were heretics (I think that they are in fact heretics). The truth is that FUS is just really successful at selling itself to people who are, apparently, very determined to believe in whatever they want to regardless of the evidence to the contrary. I suppose you could say the entire university is like one big crazy personal revelation to a specific group of Catholics that just need know that there is a school where they can go and not face "other ideas".

[/quote]

Ok i'll bite. Those "other ideas" you write about can cost a young person their soul. What's more important: going to a moral wasteland type of college with the chance of getting a great paying job or **going to an orthodox Catholic college with the chance of not getting a good paying job, **but making it to heaven when you die?

I went to a very, very, very secular college for a year. I lived in the dorms, met great people, but was on the verge of losing my faith. I in fact lost it for a brief point of time. There was no Newman Center in fact only an extremely liberal protestant group. This happened very recently I might add. Imagine this: being a cat in the middle of a pack of pit bulls.

I don't need to tell you that we live in a secular culture, it's pretty in your face to tell you the truth. I can only imagine how the numbers will look in the Church in the next 20 years. However my faith became stronger after I left, but the battle is not worth it for any poorly catechized young person to go through. I feel great sadness for the difficulties that our youth stumble upon in today's world.

My suggestion: pick a college where one feels that their faith can mesh well with the college itself. Academics aren't more important than one's soul.


#13

I received my BBA in Finance from Notre Dame in 1999, and my Juris Doctor from Notre Dame Law School in 2002.

As a faithful Catholic as well as a professional (attorney), I cannot emphasize strongly enough how much I value my education from Notre Dame. If I had to do it all over again, I would choose Notre Dame with zero hesitation. I would encourage any young Catholic to do the same.


#14

Is Ave Maria even accredited?

I can assure you Notre Dame’s education is NOT “watered down”! Notre Dame has an excellent reputation and has rigorous studies. Have you checked the requirements to be admitted? No slackers in that school!


#15

[quote="Catholic90, post:14, topic:212761"]
Is Ave Maria even accredited?

I can assure you Notre Dame's education is NOT "watered down"! Notre Dame has an excellent reputation and has rigorous studies. Have you checked the requirements to be admitted? No slackers in that school!

[/quote]

I'm fairly certain he means to jab at Notre Dame's faithfulness to Church teaching. A lot of Catholics have jumped on the anti-ND bandwagon after the Obama commencement.


#16

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