I think it is impossible to understand the Church if you don’t understand Mary. & I’m sad for all those who do not understand Mary.
It is good you are asking more about Mary to not fail into error though . Very very good to test the spirits and investigate.
Then you don’t understand Mary, the Church, or Christ.
Just as Christ is the image of the unseen God, Mary is the image of the Church. We approach the Father through Christ. We approach Christ through the Church.
So this thread started
Which brought us to
So you follow with
I don’t see how this helps
The Father willed that Jesus should come to the world through Mary, that all grace should flow through Mary. Fittingly, she was kept free from all sin from her conception, The Immaculate Conception. The Immaculate Conception is Mary’s conception not Jesus’ conception. That she is involved in everyone’s salvation is directly willed by God.
CCC 2565 …Prayer is Christian insofar as it is communion with Christ and extends throughout the Church, which is his Body. Its dimensions are those of Christ’s love.
Praying to/with Mary is Christian prayer as she is in communion with Christ and we are of the same body. It is not outside or separate from prayer to God, it is prayer in Christ.
Perhaps this quote in the op is from the Glories of Mary, wrtten by St. Liguori.
Now I would personally not question a a Saint
And many others. But it’s your choice op. We live and die by our choices.
The quote you shared is not cited. Please give the source of your quote.
This.I always ask a Mary to take my prayers and present them to Our Lord ,to remove and replace anything lacking and present them to him with her perfect love and adoration.
St. Alphonsus Ligouri
& Mary is the image of the Church, so the Holy Spirit leads you to Mary.
Catholic don’t pray to Mary, they ask her to pray for them, to help them with their prayers… prayers to Mary brings you to God and any thing done that brings you to God is a blessing.
It’s not a sin if you don’t ask Mary for prayers… praying to her for help is a choice.
I do not understand how you have come to some of the conclusions you have made.
Why exactly do you think that this is about deifying Mary? I do not see anything that is about worshiping her which I think you have carefully avoided saying. I don’t read anything that is close to that. or goes beyond love. Which is your conclusion that I wonder why you believe it.
How can she help us when we die? How did she help at the wedding at Cana? It is the same way she helps us by asking her Son.
How do we serve her? By doing what her Son asks of us.
Catholics do not pray to Mary? I’m a Catholic, I pray to her all the time. Apart from asking Her to pray for me (aka intercede on my behalf), my other prayers are solely devoted to Her only - without asking for Her intercession.
Well, this sounds like you are equating "praying to " with “worship of”
Catholics separate the two. The prayer we do at Mass, the whole thing, is worship of God.
Pray, simply means to ask. We recognize the station God has placed in Mary. We honor God by recognizing the authority & responsibility He has placed in her.
Let’s say you had a teacher & that teacher recognized a fellow student as exemplary. So she tells the class, we’re going to the cafeteria, form a line behind the exemplary student & follow her to the cafeteria.
So all the students get behind the exemplary student, but you get behind the teacher. Do you think the teacher would be happy that you do not recognize her authority to appoint an exemplary student to lead the class?
On the one hand you recognize the authority of the teacher to lead, on the other hand you do not recognize her execution of that authority.
Break this down as simply as possible.
The fact that you do not pray to Mary in no way helps to understand how prayer to Mary is not deification
That’s like asking how do I keep my shoe on my foot if I don’t tie the laces & you reply, “I don’t tie the laces.”
The OP asks, “I want to pray to Mary, but I don’t want to worship her.”
Your answer is, “I don’t pray to her.” Totally ignoring the, “I want to pray to her…” part of the question as if praying to Mary is worshiping her.
I didn’t realize she wanted to serve Mary, I thought I was answering how praying to her was not deifying her, I was explaining not all Catholic’s pray to her so they do not deifying her. I didn’t realize she wanted to serve her… my apologies, I’ll remain off this thread… and delete my replies.
You’re missing the point.
Is it possible to pray to someone who is not God?
I’m sorry but are you asking me for a reply, because it seems every reply I give isn’t what the OP is asking about, so I delete them.
I explained what prayer means to me, but you said that didn’t help the OP in her question about serving Mary… so I deleted it… and now your asking me again to explain. Do you want my reply or not. I can’t explain to the original poster’s question about how praying to her is not deifying, I can just say I don’t pray to Mary.
so please tell me, do you want my reply or not, because it’s not going to be what you want to hear… nor is my reply my own way of thinking (I struggled with it for a long time), nor does my answer defy the church, disrespects Mary or God.
so please tell me what would you like me to do, stay off this thread or answer your question.
What I want isn’t important. This thread is off topic.
So what was the purpose of any of your posts in this thread. That’s all I’m asking.
What was the OP asking?
How was your answer supposed to help?
I’m just a guy participating on this forum. If you think I’m wrong, say I’m wrong. I don’t mind discussing, I don’t mind debate.
I’m just trying to understand what you were trying say.
I don’t mind debates either, but you kept telling me my post were not of any help to the original poster, that my post were taking the thread off topic.
I deleted them, but you are still asking me about them, wanting me to explain. I gave you an explanation, I answered your question. You said I was not helping the original poster understand serving Mary. I agreed.
I stopped posting but yet you keep asking about it, I don’t understand what is it you are trying to do. If you had really wanted to know my feelings about praying to Mary or prayers in general you would have read what I posted earlier… so please stop asking me about it. Thank you.
FYI the only reason I posted this here is because @Justin_Mary did.
If the OP has any questions for me about anything she/he can write to me.
I’m sorry if this upset or confused anyone.