Seventh Day Sabbath question.


#1

It says in Colossians 2:16-17 "So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a feast day or a new moon, or sabbaths, which are a shadow of thinkg to come, but the substance is of Christ."

Does this prove that the seventh day sabbath is no longer valid?


#2

Yes, its no longer valid. I recommend reading the following links:

catholic.com/tracts/sabbath-or-sunday

catholic.com/quickquestions/what-about-the-seventh-day-adventist-claim-that-the-sabbath-shouldnt-have-been-change

catholic.com/tracts/seventh-day-adventism


#3

[quote="White_Peony, post:1, topic:266934"]
It says in Colossians 2:16-17 "So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a feast day or a new moon, or sabbaths, which are a shadow of thinkg to come, but the substance is of Christ."

Does this prove that the seventh day sabbath is no longer valid?

[/quote]

There is still a sabbath of sorts, but it is on Sunday the first day of the week not Saturnday the seventh..

1Cor 16
1 Now concerning the collection for the saints: as I directed the churches of Galatia, so you also are to do. 2 On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that there will be no collecting when I come. 3 And when I arrive, I will send those whom you accredit by letter to carry your gift to Jerusalem. 4 If it seems advisable that I should go also, they will accompany me.

Paul here is discussing a gathering for Jerusalem form the Churches in Galatia and in Macedonia. In other words this is a Church gathering and the day Paul instructs the gathering to be taken is on the first day.

So why the change?

Christ was raised on Sunday thus the day became known as the "Lord's Day," and we have Biblical proof positive that this practice was extant at the writing of the Apostles...

Revelation 1
9 I, John, your brother and partner in the tribulation and the kingdom and the patient endurance that are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos on account of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet 11 saying, "Write what you see in a book and send it to the seven churches...

Seems pretty straight forward to me.

Concerning the ceremeonial laws about the Sabbath I think you have to remember that Christ said the sabbath is for men not the men for sabbath, in other words the sabbath is a time given us by God when we can come to worship Him in rest in preparation for the rest in Paradise with God forever. It is a time for us to rest and worship and glorify God. Thus the laws against work were intended to prevent men from using the sabbath as any other day when it was meant for rest and worship. But never to become a burden to men to prevent them from doing anything at all.

That is why the Church recognizes that works of charity and necessity, such as medical, legal, law enforcement, etc are perfectly acceptable on Sunday even though that is work. As also is caring for a sick person in the family and other needful works of charity. If these sort of works are being done it is not a sin to miss Mass, but if a man chooses to miss Mass so he may watch football or mow the lawn or golf or fish that is a sin because it denigrates God's Law and robs the day of its purpose, namely to be a time of repose when we will all come and worship our God.

So the old laws about the seventh day are set aside in favor of the Lord's day.

The Lord's day is to be observed but is not a tyranny.

The Pharisaic understanding of the Sabbath Law was never in effect because it was never a valid understanding of the Law, and thus it is no law at all which needed to be set aside.

God Bless


#4

I find it interesting that there are Catholics that read the Bible and yet believe that the TRUE Sabbath is Sunday and not Saturday. No where in the Bible will you read that this change has occurred. God nor Jesus have changed it. Here are just a few quotes from Catholic Cardinals, Archbishops, etc.

James Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of our Fathers, 88th ed., pp. 89.

"But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify."

James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore (1877-1921), in a signed letter.

"Is Saturday the seventh day according to the Bible and the Ten Commandments? I answer yes. Is Sunday the first day of the week and did the Church change the seventh day -Saturday - for Sunday, the first day? I answer yes . Did Christ change the day'? I answer no!

"Faithfully yours, J. Card. Gibbons"

Peter Geiermann, C.S.S.R., The Converts Catechism of Catholic Doctrine (1957), p. 50.

"Question: Which is the Sabbath day?

"Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day.

"Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?

"Answer. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday."

Peter R. Kraemer, Catholic Church Extension Society (1975),Chicago, Illinois.

"Regarding the change from the observance of the Jewish Sabbath to the Christian Sunday, I wish to draw your attention to the facts:

"1) That Protestants, who accept the Bible as the only rule of faith and religion, should by all means go back to the observance of the Sabbath. The fact that they do not, but on the contrary observe the Sunday, stultifies them in the eyes of every thinking man.

"2) We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only rule of faith. Besides the Bible we have the living Church, the authority of the Church, as a rule to guide us. We say, this Church, instituted by Christ to teach and guide man through life, has the right to change the ceremonial laws of the Old Testament and hence, we accept her change of the Sabbath to Sunday. We frankly say, yes, the Church made this change, made this law, as she made many other laws, for instance, the Friday abstinence, the unmarried priesthood, the laws concerning mixed marriages, the regulation of Catholic marriages and a thousand other laws.

"It is always somewhat laughable, to see the Protestant churches, in pulpit and legislation, demand the observance of Sunday, of which there is nothing in their Bible."

Protestants themselves KNOW the the true day of rest is Saturday and not Sunday.

So the question I have is if you truly believe in God the Father and His Son, then why do you continue to follow an organization that "Teaches for Doctrine the commandments of men"? (Mat. 15:9, Mar 7:7, Col 2:22) How can you follow a system that does not teach, preach or quote from the Bible itself, but from traditions that were handed down by men for men and not from God Himself?


#5

[quote="mcfloogin, post:4, topic:266934"]
Protestants themselves KNOW the the true day of rest is Saturday and not Sunday.

So the question I have is if you truly believe in God the Father and His Son, then why do you continue to follow an organization that "Teaches for Doctrine the commandments of men"? (Mat. 15:9, Mar 7:7, Col 2:22) How can you follow a system that does not teach, preach or quote from the Bible itself, but from traditions that were handed down by men for men and not from God Himself?

[/quote]

So 1Corinthians and Revelation are tradition handed down by men and not the word of God?

God Bless


#6

I find it interesting that the New Testament only reaffirms 9 out of 10 of the commandments. In fact when the rich man came to Jesus and asked what he had to do to gain eternal life, Jesus never mentions the Sabbath.

Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”

“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

“Which ones?” he inquired.

Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’

Matt 19:16-19

You would think that if Jesus felt the Sabbath were an important issue to His followers He would have mentioned it Himself. Rather He said He was the Lord of the Sabbath, and reminded us that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. Matt 12:8


#7

[quote="mcfloogin, post:4, topic:266934"]
I find it interesting that there are Catholics that read the Bible and yet believe that the TRUE Sabbath is Sunday and not Saturday. No where in the Bible will you read that this change has occurred. God nor Jesus have changed it. Here are just a few quotes from Catholic Cardinals, Archbishops, etc.

Protestants themselves KNOW the the true day of rest is Saturday and not Sunday.

So the question I have is if you truly believe in God the Father and His Son, then why do you continue to follow an organization that "Teaches for Doctrine the commandments of men"? (Mat. 15:9, Mar 7:7, Col 2:22) How can you follow a system that does not teach, preach or quote from the Bible itself, but from traditions that were handed down by men for men and not from God Himself?

[/quote]

This is absolute rubbish promulgated from heretical circles. The Catholic Church transferred the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday in the same way that it wrote the Bible. I think you have things backwards, McFloogin. The Bible comes from out of Sacred Tradition, and not Sacred Tradition from the Bible. The early church celebrated the Sabbath on Sunday because every Sunday was a commemoration of Pascha: a new resurrection. There is no record of the early church celebrating the Sabbath on Saturday after the break with Judaism in the 1st Century. If the "Catholic Church" is responsible for this alteration, then why do the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and mainline Protestants also use Sunday? Because this is the ancient tradition of Christianity.

Your comments strike me as suggesting that you come from a "church" that does recognise the early Ecumenical Councils, and as such I'm not sure that we should regard the suggestion that Sunday is not the Sabbath as being an heretical Christian doctrine so much as a non-Christian doctrine. That is to say, I'm not sure that the so-called "churches" that celebrate the Sabbath on Saturday are really Christian at all.


#8

[quote="mcfloogin, post:4, topic:266934"]
I find it interesting that there are Catholics that read the Bible and yet believe that the TRUE Sabbath is Sunday and not Saturday. ** No where in the Bible will you read that this change has occurred**. God nor Jesus have changed it. Here are just a few quotes from Catholic Cardinals, Archbishops, etc.

[/quote]

Same old same old SDA arguments probably copy & paste from one of their websites. :shrug:
Been refuted here many times over. One would have to be Biblically ignorant and very gullible to buy into their arguments. Simply punch up most any online Bible that has a search feature and then search the New Testament for the words, "first day week" and look at the very clear references that show that the early church ceased being Jewish and celebrating the sabbath and instead celebrated the day of the resurrection which was the first day of the week. Sunday.

All the references mcfloogin offers simply are Catholic sources pointing out that the Church has the authority as Christians to cease being Jewish and celebrate the resurrection as we do. The SDA are really nothing more than a community of anti-Catholic Judaizers.

Protestants themselves KNOW the the true day of rest is Saturday and not Sunday.

Rash generalization and fallacious premise because the vast majority of Christians know no such thing. The SDA are deceived...

So the question I have is if you truly believe in God the Father and His Son, then why do you continue to follow an organization that "Teaches for Doctrine the commandments of men"? (Mat. 15:9, Mar 7:7, Col 2:22) How can you follow a system that does not teach, preach or quote from the Bible itself, but from traditions that were handed down by men for men and not from God Himself?

This is nothing more than an SDA anti-Catholic propaganda polemic, that, as I've already pointed out is, unscriptural and deceptive.

"So the" real "question I have is if you truly believe in God the Father and His Son, then why do you continue to follow an organization that "Teaches for Doctrine the commandments of men"?"...Why do Seventh Day Adventists to follow an organization that "Teaches for Doctrine the commandments of men"? when their founders and "prophets" have twice (at least!) predicted the day and time of Christ's return in direct contradiction of the words of Our Lord Jesus Christ Himself in the New Testament?

What does the Word of God say about such prophets? Let's have a look.

Deuteronomy 18:[21] And if in silent thought thou answer: How shall I know the word that the Lord hath not spoken? [22] Thou shalt have this sign: Whatsoever that same prophet foretelleth in the name of the Lord, and it cometh not to pass: that thing the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath forged it by the pride of his mind: and therefore thou shalt not fear him.


#9

[quote="mcfloogin, post:4, topic:266934"]
I find it interesting that there are Catholics that read the Bible and yet believe that the TRUE Sabbath is Sunday and not Saturday. No where in the Bible will you read that this change has occurred. God nor Jesus have changed it. Here are just a few quotes from Catholic Cardinals, Archbishops, etc.

Protestants themselves KNOW the the true day of rest is Saturday and not Sunday.

So the question I have is if you truly believe in God the Father and His Son, then why do you continue to follow an organization that "Teaches for Doctrine the commandments of men"? (Mat. 15:9, Mar 7:7, Col 2:22) How can you follow a system that does not teach, preach or quote from the Bible itself, but from traditions that were handed down by men for men and not from God Himself?

[/quote]

If you truly believe God the Father and His son then why do you not follow His word? The Church is the pillar and Bullwark of the Truth and not the Bible. The Church was founded upon Peter.(upon this Rock I will build my Church) Peter was given the Keys to Heaven and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven. Jesus said that Sabbath was made for man not man for Sabbath.

I suspect that you believe that Catholic have never heard the argument put forth. One thing that is not in your quotes is that It was indeed Catholic who began Sunday worship and those Catholics were the Apostles. They chose to worship on Sunday because Jesus rose on that day. Their worship on Sunday is recorded in Acts 20:17, 1 Corinthians Chapter 16
John says in Revelation Chapter 1
10: I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet
The Letter of Barnabas [70-90 AD] Epistle of Barnabas
"We keep the eighth day [Sunday] with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead" (Letter of Barnabas 15:6–8 [A.D. 74])
Ignatius of Antioch [50-117 AD] Epistle to the Magnesians
"[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things * have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death" (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 110]).*


#10

The problem with the claim the Catholic church changed the date to Sunday is that in order for the Catholic church to have done so, you have to establish that the Apostle's were part of the Catholic church. That then makes the claim that the church was not established by the apostle's problematic. We can't have it both ways.


#11

It's sad that people pick verbal fights like this.

Come in from the cold and have faith in the Church that Christ established, the Catholic Church.


#12

[quote="bmullins, post:6, topic:266934"]
I find it interesting that the New Testament only reaffirms 9 out of 10 of the commandments. In fact when the rich man came to Jesus and asked what he had to do to gain eternal life, Jesus never mentions the Sabbath.

Matt 19:16-19

You would think that if Jesus felt the Sabbath were an important issue to His followers He would have mentioned it Himself. Rather He said He was the Lord of the Sabbath, and reminded us that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. Matt 12:8

[/quote]

The Sabbath is affirmed in the new testament though read Hebrews 4:1-9
However I do find that interesting and will get back to you on that.

God Bless!!!


#13

[quote="mcfloogin, post:4, topic:266934"]
I find it interesting that there are Catholics that read the Bible and yet believe that the TRUE Sabbath is Sunday and not Saturday. No where in the Bible will you read that this change has occurred. God nor Jesus have changed it. Here are just a few quotes from Catholic Cardinals, Archbishops, etc. Protestants themselves KNOW the the true day of rest is Saturday and not Sunday. So the question I have is if you truly believe in God the Father and His Son, then why do you continue to follow an organization that "Teaches for Doctrine the commandments of men"? (Mat. 15:9, Mar 7:7, Col 2:22) How can you follow a system that does not teach, preach or quote from the Bible itself, but from traditions that were handed down by men for men and not from God Himself?

[/quote]

You do realize that your opinion, in essence, makes our Lord Jesus a liar?


#14

[quote="Crumpy, post:11, topic:266934"]
It's sad that people pick verbal fights like this.

Come in from the cold and have faith in the Church that Christ established, the Catholic Church.

[/quote]

To believe in the Jewish Sabbath, while not observing the 613 Mosaic laws is pure hypocrisy, if nothing else.


#15

First of all, cutting and pasting unreliable information from anti-Catholic SDA websites is against forum rules. It is also poor scholarship. Secondly, how can you make such nonsensical claims about your brother protestants? Are you calling them liars? Heretics? Hypnotized by the Pope? What?

Next, please read the ten commandments and tell us which day of the week, by name, that the Sabbath is.

After that, tell us if Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, or not.

Then, tell us if Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic covenant or not.

Let us know if Jesus rose from the dead on the Sabbath.

Tell us, from the bible alone, on which day the Holy Spirit gave birth to the Church.

Once done with that, have a go at explaining why the Apostles gathered on Sunday. Yes, Paul, too.

Illuminate us on why Paul’s Church met to take up the collection on Sunday, but the SDA do not.

Give us the date on which the evil Catholic Church instituted the SDA claim of the man-made tradition of Sunday worship.

Explain why Jack Chick, who is even more fervently anti-Catholic than the SDA, still worships on Sunday.

We can go on from there.


#16

Even though this was posted over one year ago, Floogin never stuck around to answer questions regarding his/her allegation, a typical hit and run! When you haven’t got any facts to support your claim, why would you stick around?


#17

[quote="CalCatholic, post:16, topic:266934"]
Even though this was posted over one year ago, Floogin never stuck around to answer questions regarding his/her allegation, a typical hit and run! When you haven't got any facts to support your claim, why would you stick around?

[/quote]

Being very familiar with the SDA (our chaplain at work was SDA), I find their particular teachings quite easy to deconstruct. As with all of protestantism, it traces to one man, or in the case of the SDA, one woman, for the most part. Ellen Gould White, who does not seem to be mentioned all that much these days, drove the SDA and its doctrines. She was a prolific, almost incessant writer, and the SDA views her books as inspired, but slightly below the level of scripture. Her works are the source of much of their anger against the Catholic Church.

What kind of prophet was she? She suffered a life-threatening head injury in her youth and was in a coma for two weeks. After that, she was involved in her family's hat-making business. What was used in hat production? Mercury. So, after sustaining a severe head injury, possible organic brain damage, and likely mercury poisoning, she began to receive visions and prophesy - and write. But, in mid-1800s America, someone would always listen to you, if not follow. Witness the JDS and JWs, as well as numerous other "Made in USA" sects.

The SDA believe that Jesus is Michael the archangel - a created being. They believe that your soul goes to sleep at death. OK, so why did Jesus preach the Gospel to the dead? They teach soul annihilation of the wicked at the judgment - no eternal punishment, only permanent lights out. Oh yeah, and the reintroduction of the pre-Christian Friday-Saturday Sabbath. Once you abridge the bible, divorce it from the Tradition which produced it, and depart from all authority to teach or interpret, these are some of the aberrant beliefs you come up with. Unlike their contemporaries (the LDS and JWs), the SDA, by reason of their trinitarian baptism, are true Christians. Yet, they are taught an almost visceral hatred of the Catholic Church. They target the Catholic Church for proselytization, as do the LDS and JWs.

The Holy Spirit unites.
The demon divides.


#18

It is also worth noting that all of these sects, the SDA, JW and LDS all arose in New York in the post Charles Finney revivalist movement which resulted in the “burn over” that initially caused a lot of excitement but wound up with disappointed people and empty churches. Which, btw, it still does today. These non-denoms will spring up around one person and when that one person leaves the “church” falls apart because Finney rejected everything that makes the Christian Faith Catholic (sacraments, priesthood, forgiveness, atonement, authority) and in stead made it a feel good session based on personal piety and cult of personality.

In such an environment these three “churches” sprang up and began to grow all with a strong emphasis on piety, diet, family and separation from the world. It is no coincidence that these “churches” still seek back-slidden baptist and non-denoms as their primary missional outreach efforts in the USA to this day. Because it is still fertile ground for these groups because people want to believe, but don’t know what to believe, and have been told superstitious lies about the Catholic Church and these groups find in these people ready converts.

Something to think about.

God Bless


#19

[quote="bogeydogg, post:18, topic:266934"]
It is also worth noting that all of these sects, the SDA, JW and LDS all arose in New York in the post Charles Finney revivalist movement which resulted in the "burn over" that initially caused a lot of excitement but wound up with disappointed people and empty churches. Which, btw, it still does today. These non-denoms will spring up around one person and when that one person leaves the "church" falls apart because Finney rejected everything that makes the Christian Faith Catholic (sacraments, priesthood, forgiveness, atonement, authority) and in stead made it a feel good session based on personal piety and cult of personality.

In such an environment these three "churches" sprang up and began to grow all with a strong emphasis on piety, diet, family and separation from the world. It is no coincidence that these "churches" still seek back-slidden baptist and non-denoms as their primary missional outreach efforts in the USA to this day. Because it is still fertile ground for these groups because people want to believe, but don't know what to believe, and have been told superstitious lies about the Catholic Church and these groups find in these people ready converts.

Something to think about.

God Bless

[/quote]

It is rather amazing how many restorationist sects sprang up in 19th century America. There certainly was a spirit driving them, but it was not the Holy Spirit.


#20

[quote="po18guy, post:19, topic:266934"]
It is rather amazing how many restorationist sects sprang up in 19th century America. There certainly was a spirit driving them, but it was not the Holy Spirit.

[/quote]

True that.

God Bless


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.