Sex before marriage mortal or venial

Where in the Bible and the Catechism does it address sex before marriage as as mortal sin?

Morally, can one justify pre marital sex based on mutual love?

Fornication is grave matter (mortal sin) against the sixth commandment. See the Catechism section on the sixth commandment.

Matthew 15: 15-20 Then Peter* said to him in reply, “Explain [this] parable to us.” He said to them, “Are even you still without understanding? Do you not realize that everything that enters the mouth passes into the stomach and is expelled into the latrine? But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile. For from the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, blasphemy. These are what
defile a person, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile.”

1 Cor 6:9: Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes* nor sodomites

among others

No.

Yes fornication is a mortal sin.

It is grave matter for mortal sin.

Real love can wait. Faithfulness in marriage is proven before marriage. There will times in marriage for many reasons that you will not be able to have sex. The discipline now in waiting till marriage will pay you dividens later in marriage. It is a fact, the couples that have sex before and/or live together before marriage are often the marriages that end up in divorce. If you REALLY have mutual love then you can wait with God’s strength and help. Give yourself something to celebrate on your first night as man and wife. God’s plan for sex and marriage never fail, it’s when we don’t follow God’s plan that we run into trouble.

Thank you for your inputs. God bless.

No. Unmarried Christians, Jews, Muslims may not engage in any type of sexual activity before marriage. In other words they may not take willful pleasure in sexual thoughts, desires, or any type of physical sexual activity, period. As a Catholic you should not have to ask that question.

See the Catechism: vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

Article 3 MAN’S FREEDOM
I. Freedom and Responsibility
II. Human Freedom in the Economy of Salvation
IN BRIEF

Article 4 THE MORALITY OF HUMAN ACTS
I. The Sources of Morality
II. Good Acts and Evil Acts
IN BRIEF

Article 5 THE MORALITY OF THE PASSIONS
I. Passions
II. Passions and Moral Life
IN BRIEF

Article 6 MORAL CONSCIENCE
I. The Judgment of Conscience
II. The Formation of Conscience
III. To Choose in Accord With Conscience
IV. Erroneous Judgment
IN BRIEF

Article 7 THE VIRTUES
I. The Human Virtues
II. The Theological Virtues
III. The Gifts and Fruits of the Holy Spirit
IN BRIEF

Article 8 SIN
I. Mercy and Sin
II. The Definition of Sin
III. The Different Kinds of Sins
IV. The Gravity of Sin: Mortal and Venial Sin
V. The Proliferation of Sin
IN BRIEF

CHAPTER TWO THE HUMAN COMMUNION
Article 1 THE PERSON AND SOCIETY
I. The Communal Character of the Human Vocation
II. Conversion and Society
IN BRIEF

Article 2 PARTICIPATION IN SOCIAL LIFE
I. Authority
II. The Common Good
III. Responsibility and Participation
IN BRIEF

Article 3 SOCIAL JUSTICE
I. Respect For the Human Person
II. Equality and Differences Among Men
III. Human Solidarity
IN BRIEF

CHAPTER THREE GOD’S SALVATION: LAW AND GRACE
Article 1 THE MORAL LAW
I. The Natural Moral Law
II. The Old Law
III. The New Law or the Law of the Gospel
IN BRIEF

Article 2 GRACE AND JUSTIFICATION
I. Justification
II. Grace
III. Merit
IV. Christian Holiness
IN BRIEF

Article 3 THE CHURCH, MOTHER AND TEACHER
I. Moral Life and the Magisterium of the Church
II. The Precepts of the Church
III. Moral Life and Missionary Witness
IN BRIEF

SECTION TWO THE TEN COMMANDMENTS
IN BRIEF

CHAPTER ONE YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND
Article 1 THE FIRST COMMANDMENT
I. “You Shall Worship the Lord Your God and Him Only Shall You Serve”
II. “Him Only Shall You Serve”
III. “You Shall Have No Other Gods Before Me”
IV. “You Shall Not Make For Yourself a Graven Image . . .”
IN BRIEF

Article 2 THE SECOND COMMANDMENT
I. The Name of the Lord is Holy
II. Taking the Name of the Lord in Vain
III. The Christian Name
IN BRIEF

Article 3 THE THIRD COMMANDMENT
I. The Sabbath Day
II. The Lord’s Day
IN BRIEF

CHAPTER TWO YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF
ARTICLE 4 THE FOURTH COMMANDMENT
I. The Family in God’s Plan
II. The Family and Society
III. The Duties of Family Members
IV. The Family and the Kingdom
V. The Authorities In Civil Society
IN BRIEF

Article 5 THE FIFTH COMMANDMENT
I. Respect for Human Life
II. Respect for the Dignity of Persons
III. Safeguarding Peace
IN BRIEF

Article 6 THE SIXTH COMMANDMENT
I. “Male and Female He Created Them . . .”
II. The Vocation to Chastity
III. The Love of Husband and Wife
IV. Offenses Against the Dignity of Marriage
IN BRIEF

Article 7 THE SEVENTH COMMANDMENT
I. The Universal Destination and the Private Ownership of Goods
II. Respect for Persons and Their Goods
III. The Social Doctrine of the Church
IV. Economic Activity and Social Justice
V. Justice and Solidarity Among Nations
VI. Love For the Poor
IN BRIEF

Article 8 THE EIGHTH COMMANDMENT
I. Living in the Truth
II. To Bear Witness to the Truth
III. Offenses Against Truth
IV. Respect for the Truth
V. The Use of the Social Communications Media
VI. Truth, Beauty, and Sacred Art
IN BRIEF

Article 9 THE NINTH COMMANDMENT
I. Purification of the Heart
II. The Battle for Purity
IN BRIEF

Article 10 THE TENTH COMMANDMENT
I. The Disorder of Covetous Desires
II. The Desires of the Spirit
III. Poverty of Heart
IV. “I Want to See God”
IN BRIEF

PART FOUR: CHRISTIAN PRAYER
SECTION ONE PRAYER

The sixth and ninth commandments apply to sexual sins, but some of the others do to because often a matter of justice toward one’s neighbor is effected. You need to read all of this to understand all the reasoning.

Linus2nd

How does one follow this law in todays world, when most kids are having sex by the time they are 12 yrs old,? This is obviously LONG before they are even considering marriage, and usually by the time they end up getting engaged, many have been with multiple partners, sometimes reaching into the double digits!!!

I think God was spot on correct when he said not many people will make it to heaven!!

Im not claiming to be any different though, I had my first experience when I had just turned 13 yrs old,( and this was back in the mid 80s,they likely start much earlier nowadays) and by the time I got married, I had been with quite a few past girlfriends, my wife had similar experiences as well, so this is pretty commonplace in todays world.

This scares me to think about sometimes. I personally do not know anyone who has waited for marriage, and I grew up with alot of friends, and know alot of people, I have stayed in contact all thru out our lives, so we all know to some degree who each has been with. this is truly frightening.

It’s grave matter. If committed with full knowledge and consent of will it is also a mortal sin.

This may be a geographical thing. I graduated high school in 2007. Most people I knew got their first “real” kiss in around 7th grade so about 12-13, but I would say that the majority of the people I know didn’t start doing sexual things, like making out/sex until around 16 or so. I think 12 or younger is shockingly young to even get the chance to be alone with the opposite sex.

OP, it is a mortal sin. You aren’t going to get around it by justifying that you “love” the person.

Hum myself I was never alone with the opposite sex in my teens at all. But I wasn’t a very mature teenager anyway. In deciding whether or not a teen should date would depend on maturity and other factors.

Oh I agree. It was just shocking to me that preteens are even thinking about sex and such. I had my first boyfriend in 4th grade. All that meant was he sat next to me at lunch. lol. I don’t think we ever officially broke up. :smiley: If he would have ever tried to kiss me, he would probably have gotten a black eye.

I wasn’t trying to derail the thread. It just shocked me that the person said that they wouldn’t be surprised that preteens were having sex, like it is the norm now. It sure isn’t where I am from.

Waiting happens, but I think in this society, the loudest ones are the ones who don’t wait. Not to put too much personal info out, but I remember being known as “the virgin” my freshman year in college (I wasn’t the only one…). It was like guys wanted to be the “one” which made it even more so of a reason for me to hold out. On the other hand, another classmate of mine wanted to “get it over with” because she was tired of being known as “the virgin”. The pressure of wondering if a guy was trying to get to her or was really interested in her was so much, that she literally said, “I am just going to do it with whoever and get it over with”. She seemed okay later so I am not judging her or saying she had some major guilt trips. On the other hand, I had a MAJOR fear of getting pregnant or some STD and having to return to my dysfunctional home. :wink:

I think it depends on the crowd. My cousin’s friends all seemed to start around the same time (in middle school). But I know someone else who says they all started in high school. My grandmother was very prude and even the concept of talking on the phone to a boy was one step away from being a teen statistic as far as she was concerned. So I think I found myself confused as to what actually lead to someone crossing the line. (Was it kissing? Heavy petting? “second base”?) LOL

What’s interesting is that I think the fear, at least at that point in my life, was the driving factor, far more than the moral implications. Now, I am glad I didn’t start as early as others, but I can’t honestly say it was because of the morality that I was taught.

Now as a mother, I am trying to balance the fear of pregnancy, STDs, etc with the morality of waiting. It’s hard to know what will resonate with my children. :shrug:

Don’t be scared. If a teenage girl appears on the Maury/Gerry Springer type of show and has had 10 sexual partners before the age of 18, if she is utterly convinced that there is nothing wrong with it, that she’s free to use her body whichever way she chooses etc., then she’s lacking one element to be guilty of a mortal sin. If you’re a decent fellow, try your best to live according to what you think is moral, then you’re as a saved as Billy Graham.

As for fornication, I see it as casual sex, with two people who aren’t believers or are nominally believers who intend to stay together and raise a family, then using the term fornication would denote a despicable and petty spirit of religious self-satisfaction and haughtiness. "'Oh, God, I thank you that I am not … " Fornication in the Bible probably meant casual sex or Roman orgies, not sex between two committed people who intend to get married or to stay together. If you die with hate in your heart, hating God and people, then you’re done like dinner. Again, if you’re decent and loving and try your best according to your God-honest perception of what is good, then no way is God going to throw you under the bus/send you to hell.

Sorry, that is wrong. Taking deliberate pleasure in sexual acts, thougths, desires, is always grave. There is no " small or slight matter " in this regard. There is no excuse for Catholics since, presumabley, they have better instruction in these matters.

Linus2nd

Context, Linus, context. There is subtlety in God’s decrees, if you think God views casual sex with multiple partners on the one hand, and sex in a committed relationship with offspring in mind on the other hand, in the same light, then you’re insulting God’s intelligence. Discernment and subtlety. Or perhaps God’s intelligence is vastly overrated and he sees everything in monolith terms, that is a possiblity. We say God is love, yet hell exists, so God’s intelligence may also be something that has been blown out of proportion. God may be vastly inferior to how he’s been portrayed for ages.

Preteens or children having sex. I don’t know either I agree with you. Is that physiologically possible? I guess it might depend on how you define sex. If nothing is working yet no procreation could come. Is that sex? I don’t want to get OT either though.

If you look back thru history, you will lots of times where a 9-10 yr old female has become pregnant, so it is possible. This fact alone makes me wonder WHY such a thing is even possible though. I think 100% of people would agree this is wrong, on multiple levels, Is God really that different than Man?

Did you honestly ask why a thing is possible? Have you taken an anatomy class?

It isn’t the norm for those aged children to be “doing it,” is all I’m saying.

Let’s not derail the thread anymore. If you want to keep talking about this, start a new thread. :thumbsup:

I speak as a Catholic and I think Christians, Jews and Muslims would agree with what I said. The key point is that any deliberate pleasure taken in any sexual act, thought or desire by those who are not validly married is always a mortal sin, there is no small matter in this regard.

I’m sorry you don’t understand that. You want exceptions. There are none, period.

Linus2nd

Of course its not normal, I was simply saying back in the days when I was around 12-13 yrs old, this was the age many people I was in school with started to engage in sexual behavior, and we all know, as times goes by, kids start acting olde much earlier in life, so if the average age back in the 80s was 12-14 yrs old, then Im assuming it starts at a younger age in 2013, especially since this group of people have things we did not back then, instant communication with other kids, internet, much more aggressive peer pressure to deal with, the idea that this is OK to do at any age, etc

This is the last comment Im going to make about this on this thread.

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