Sex scandal/abuse costs


#21

Sorry. I trained as an accountant. I’m thinking Profit and Loss. In other words, the credits of doing good deeds versus the debits of doing bad deeds.


#22

First of all, “The Church” as an entity isn’t going to heaven or hell, so it doesn’t need to rack up spiritual profit and loss. It matters not what the Church’s overall “spiritual balance sheet” looks like because God will judge each individual in the Church separately. So you might have very good, saintly people within an overall corrupt Church. Also, God is not going to destroy His Church even if it is corrupt, so it’s not like when the bad entries outweigh the good entries, the Church will vanish. It will just continue to totter along with however many (or few) saintly people are in it.

Second, when it comes to judging individuals, God doesn’t go by a “credit system”. What you are proposing sounds like Jansenism, which was condemned as a heresy by the Pope. One aspect of Jansenism was that we had to constantly be racking up “credits” in order to overcome your terrible sins and show yourself worthy of being saved. St. Therese of Lisieux (a Doctor of the Church) came to the conclusion that this was pointless because no matter how many “credits” or merits we accumulated, it was never going to be enough to make up for our sins, and therefore we could be saved only by relying totally upon God’s mercy. (This seems similar to the teachings of St. Faustina as well.)


#23

Yet, in the OT according to the prophets, God will judge Israel as a people, not as individuals. Christ is to return for his bride, the Church, as judge and the Church is a collective of many people. The Church is a flock of sheep. The shepherd leaves the majority to fend for itself in order to find the lone one away from the flock. There will be a flock of sheep on one side and a herd of goats on the other. There will be bundles of wheat and bundles of tares.

As I see it from the texts, the collective is to be judged, not the individual.


#24

“The collective is to be judged” and the rest of your post is NOT Catholic teaching. I see by your profile you are not Catholic.

Catholics do not rely solely on Scripture and especially not solely on the Old Testament, as Jesus made a new covenant with us in the New Testament.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church clearly states the correct Church teaching on individual judgment a section 1022:

1022 Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven-through a purification594 or immediately,595 – or immediate and everlasting damnation.596

At the evening of life, we shall be judged on our love.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a12.htm

If you want to discuss this subject further, I suggesting making a new thread in Apologetics - Sacred Scripture and people will discuss further with you there, as the discussion here is getting off topic for this thread which is about the sex scandal abuse costs.


#25

I am keeping to topic. Costs need not just be financial. The secular world sees the Church as a collective. The secular world, as the majority, will decide the sentence of the Church democratically for the abuse scandals. Maybe it will be a fine. At the extreme, it could mean execution. Secular law sorely frowns on the abuse of children and punishes accordingly. It is not out of the realms of possibility that secular governments will ban the Church in order to protect minors. There is your ‘cost’.


#26

This was a news report in India on 31, July, 2018:

"Police on Monday registered a case against a senior priest for his alleged attempt to influence the nun who has accused Jalandhar bishop Franco Mulakkal of rape. The case was lodged on a direction of the judicial first class magistrate court in Pala after the audio clip of a purported conversation between Fr Aerthayil and a nun close to the complainant came out in the media.

Catholic congregation Carmelites of Mary Immaculate (CMI) too initiated disciplinary action against Aerthayil. Aerthayil, a former chairman of Catholic Church mouthpiece Deepika, was removed as head of the CMI monastery at Kurianad in Kottayam a day after a voice clip came out in the media."

strong text The Bishop is accused of serial rape, then a priest tries to threaten/influence one of the survivors - and is caught on tape alternately threatening and luring with promises of 10 acres of land in the name of the diocese. The church merely transfers this priest.
Losing faith…so many scandals - sexual/financial - in India


#27

“Secular government” in USA is not going to ban the Church. There would be a huge constitutional problem. I doubt it would happen in other countries that promote freedom of religion either.

Plus, if they were going to ban the Church, they would have to ban many other churches as well as their own public instituions. The public schools in USA have a much worse record of sexual abuse of minors than the Church does. Child sex abusers are drawn to the teaching profession and they do all kinds of rot. We even had a gay sex abuse scandal concerning minors in the US Congress. So the government is in no position to be banning the Church when its own record is just as bad or worse.

Even if somehow a ban was enacted, the Church would simply continue to operate underground as it has throughout history when a government tried to ban it. Perhaps the faithful would also go to war with the government in defense of the church, as happened in Mexico. In the end, the Church would prevail, as Jesus said that “the gates of Hell would not prevail” against His church.

Anyway, all this stuff you’re bringing up is extreme speculation. it’s not even close to happening. I prefer to concern myself with actual realities, such as how are we going to clean up the seminaries and protect children and vulnerable adults today - not worry about some big fantasy you are having of a government ban that is extremely unlikely to occur.


#28

Maybe Pope Francis will have a better idea of the “gates of Hell” within the Church when he meets abuse victims in Ireland soon. Maybe, then, he will appreciate the ‘cost’ to their innocence and their lives.


#29

Sorry for intruding. Much distressed.


#30

I think you underestimate the secular world. Even secularists, who hold the majority, are created in the image of the Creator and the Creator will judge.


#31

Pope Francis is already well aware of all the rot that has been going on Ireland for about the last 150 years. Abuse, sadly, is nothing new there.


#32

I think you’re just trying to undermine my and others’ faith. I couldn’t care less about the “secular world” in the sense you’re using the term anyway. I’m not going to be in it long.

Have a nice day, good bye!


#34

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