Sexual activity during fertile time with NFP


#1

Greetings everyone on this forum. I am a Protestant, but admire and respect Catholics. I have a question for those who practice NFP. During the long time duration during the month when the wife is fertile, is it considered ok to practise some forms of sexual activity which would lead to a sexual release for the husband, but would not include intercourse, such as kissing and then other activities which would lead to a sexual release for the husband, without conventional intercourse having taken place. I’m asking this because I realize that for many husbands, the long period of abstinence could lead to sexual frustration and marital issues. I’m wondering if the Church teachings say anything about this and if Catholics who do NFP do this. personally, if my wife wanted to do NFP, but also allowed me some other forms of sexual release when intercourse wasn’t possible, I would find that that would make things much easier.


#2

[quote="rob_in_cal, post:1, topic:196455"]
Greetings everyone on this forum. I am a Protestant, but admire and respect Catholics. I have a question for those who practice NFP. During the long time duration during the month when the wife is fertile, is it considered ok to practise some forms of sexual activity which would lead to a sexual release for the husband, but would not include intercourse, such as kissing and then other activities which would lead to a sexual release for the husband, without conventional intercourse having taken place. I'm asking this because I realize that for many husbands, the long period of abstinence could lead to sexual frustration and marital issues. I'm wondering if the Church teachings say anything about this and if Catholics who do NFP do this. personally, if my wife wanted to do NFP, but also allowed me some other forms of sexual release when intercourse wasn't possible, I would find that that would make things much easier.

[/quote]

No. If intercourse is not going to be engaged in then there shouldn't be any intentional stimulation of sexual organs leading to release. Kissing is fine , hugs are fine. You can express love in non sexual ways during this time as well .


#3

No, that would leave a loophole big enough to drive a truck through. Nobody would be complaining about the ban on ABC if you could just simply use NFP and engage in mutual masturbation when you are fertile.


#4

If you don't have sex for a couple of weeks it won't kill you.

I used to think this was not true, but after using NFP for 20 years, I am sill alive...

:thumbsup:

Learning to say no to oneself and not be ruled by sexual urges 24 hours a day is a struggle. I have not mastered it yet, but I feel the fight is worth it.


#5

[quote="rob_in_cal, post:1, topic:196455"]
Greetings everyone on this forum. I am a Protestant, but admire and respect Catholics. I have a question for those who practice NFP. During the long time duration during the month when the wife is fertile, is it considered ok to practise some forms of sexual activity which would lead to a sexual release for the husband, but would not include intercourse, such as kissing and then other activities which would lead to a sexual release for the husband, without conventional intercourse having taken place. I'm asking this because I realize that for many husbands, the long period of abstinence could lead to sexual frustration and marital issues. I'm wondering if the Church teachings say anything about this and if Catholics who do NFP do this. personally, if my wife wanted to do NFP, but also allowed me some other forms of sexual release when intercourse wasn't possible, I would find that that would make things much easier.

[/quote]

NFP is about a shared experience of fidelity. The oneness with which you create life is also the oneness with which you chose temporary abstinence. It is a sacrifice that you offer up to God. Sex is a sacred act because of its life giving power. To intentionally remove the creative element (procreation) would be to reject this truth. As marriage is a sacrament where you give "all that I am", there is no greater test of this than the practice of NFP.


#6

Hi Rob, welcome to CAF,

Which answer do you want, the short answer or the long answer? :D

The short answer is no, there is nothing you can do during fertile times OR infertile times that allows for the husband's release outside of normal marital relations.

The long answer: NFP isn't an alternative to contraception. It is a way of living within the natural design of the human body. We are designed complementarily. That means that if the husband needs a "release" then you can't exclude the wife. Sexual activity involves ALL the sex organs, not just the male's.

The idea that we "need sex" is where the thinking can go off the rails. Chastity might be a trial, but it is certainly very do-able. This idea that it is also only a "male need" is very telling. Women can and do have very strong sex drives. What the drives are not, however is the same. The further idea that sperm buildup *must *be released is just plain factually wrong. (I am very married, and very happily so. No one ever died from abstinence.)

The question I would pose to you then, is why would you need a "release" that would exclude her? How is that living a marriage?

Please don't feel like I am pointing fingers or singling you out. These are questions that we all have to ask ourselves about marriage. If you prefer not to answer in a public forum, I totally understand, but if you are interested in further discussion I am now subscribed to this thread for updates.

Again, welcome to CAF. :wave: I hope your stay here is helpful and hopeful!


#7

[quote="rob_in_cal, post:1, topic:196455"]
Greetings everyone on this forum. I am a Protestant, but admire and respect Catholics. I have a question for those who practice NFP. During the long time duration during the month when the wife is fertile, is it considered ok to practise some forms of sexual activity which would lead to a sexual release for the husband, but would not include intercourse, such as kissing and then other activities which would lead to a sexual release for the husband, without conventional intercourse having taken place.

[/quote]

This is masterbation, and is a grave offense against our sexuality as given to us by God. It's a sin against the Sixth Commandment (as Catholics number them).

[quote="rob_in_cal, post:1, topic:196455"]
I'm asking this because I realize that for many husbands, the long period of abstinence could lead to sexual frustration and marital issues.

[/quote]

Define long. I'm not sure how long you believe the fertile period to be. A week isn't long. I'm on a week long business trip right now. If a week causes marital problems, someone has big issues and they aren't about sex.

[quote="rob_in_cal, post:1, topic:196455"]
I'm wondering if the Church teachings say anything about this and if Catholics who do NFP do this.

[/quote]

Certainly the bible and the Church have much to say about sexual immorality, and genital sexual activity apart from intercourse is a misuse of our sexual faculties.

[quote="rob_in_cal, post:1, topic:196455"]
personally, if my wife wanted to do NFP, but also allowed me some other forms of sexual release when intercourse wasn't possible, I would find that that would make things much easier.

[/quote]

Self-control is one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23)

We are called to live the virtues, among which is temperance. The fruit of temperance is self control. NFP builds virtue and disciplines an unruly will. Those crucified with Christ crucify their sinful nature, passions and desires (Galatians 5:24)


#8

This isn’t 100% accurate. Married couples can engage in many different sexual activities. The only hard-and-fast rule is that the man cannot finish outside of his wife’s vagina. (Sorry to get technical–I couldn’t come up with a more polite euphemism to get my point across.)

I’m a Protestant who converted to Catholicism as an adult. An easy-to-read book that really helped me understand (and embrace) the Church’s stance on sex is Holy Sex!: A Catholic Guide to Toe-Curling, Mind-Blowing, Infallible Loving by Gregory K. Popcak. I wish that I had read it as an unmarried Lutheran! It could have saved me a lot of grief both before and after my marriage. It (or at least certain portions of it) will be required reading for my teenagers when we have “the sex talk” someday. :thumbsup:


#9

[quote="rob_in_cal, post:1, topic:196455"]
During the long time duration during the month when the wife is fertile,

[/quote]

With a good NFP system, that "long duration" is only 3-5 days. Most married couples go 3-5 days without sex on a regular basis. ;)

[quote="rob_in_cal, post:1, topic:196455"]
is it considered ok to practise some forms of sexual activity which would lead to a sexual release for the husband, but would not include intercourse, such as kissing and then other activities which would lead to a sexual release for the husband, without conventional intercourse having taken place.

[/quote]

Kissing, backrubs, and other expressions of sexual desire and unity are okay, but "sexual release" without intercourse is not okay. Men must control themselves until they can achieve their sexual "release" (I'd call it "ecstasy") during sexual intercourse with their wives.

[quote="rob_in_cal, post:1, topic:196455"]
I'm asking this because I realize that for many husbands, the long period of abstinence could lead to sexual frustration and marital issues.

[/quote]

3-5 days isn't so long of a stretch to cause sexual frustration for most men -- even a week or 10 days ought not be a problem. I could see a very immature man or a man with a dysfunctional attitude about sex having a problem with it, but not your average normal, healthy guy who truly loves his wife.

If your wife had a serious illness and wasn't able to have sex for a couple weeks or a month, I'm sure you'd man up and the situation wouldn't lead to marital problems, right? this is a much shorter time period. And then you get to have lots and lots of sex.


#10

Yes, the couple can engage in sexual foreplay activities to assist in the marital act. The couple cannot engage in these activities apart from intercourse. Which is what I said.


#11

[quote="1ke, post:10, topic:196455"]
Yes, the couple can engage in sexual foreplay activities to assist in the marital act. The couple cannot engage in these activities apart from intercourse. Which is what I said.

[/quote]

Okay, I think we just had a communication problem. :) When you said "genital sexual activity apart from intercourse is a misuse of our sexual faculties," I misinterpreted it and thought you meant that it was wrong to even touch genitals except during the actual act of intercourse.

It sounds like agree that the Church's teaching allows genital sexual activity to be used as foreplay, and there is no rule that says foreplay must culminate in intercourse. (So long as the man doesn't finish outside of his wife's vagina.)


#12

[quote="Augusta_Sans, post:11, topic:196455"]
Okay, I think we just had a communication problem. :) When you said "genital sexual activity apart from intercourse is a misuse of our sexual faculties," I misinterpreted it and thought you meant that it was wrong to even touch genitals except during the actual act of intercourse.

[/quote]

Yes, a miscommunication.

[quote="Augusta_Sans, post:11, topic:196455"]

It sounds like agree that the Church's teaching allows genital sexual activity to be used as foreplay, and there is no rule that says foreplay must culminate in intercourse. (So long as the man doesn't finish outside of his wife's vagina.)

[/quote]

No. This is not correct. Purposely stimulating the genitals without *intercourse is not foreplay, it is *masterbation and is a mortal sin.

Yes, foreplay must culminate in intercourse to be properly ordered. One may not stimulate the genitals as an end unto itself, with or without climax.


#13

The information that I’ve read contradicts this. It’s my understanding that foreplay doesn’t necessarily have to end with intercourse. What if during foreplay, the woman experiences pain? Or a baby starts crying in the other room? If the couple ceases foreplay, is everything they’ve done to this point a sin? It’s my understanding that, so long as the man does not reach climax during foreplay, foreplay does not HAVE to lead to sexual intercourse.

Since we’re in disagreement here, I guess would encourage the OP to read Holy Sex! (or a similar Catholic-focused publication) if he wants to learn more on the topic. :thumbsup:


#14

[quote="Augusta_Sans, post:13, topic:196455"]
The information that I've read contradicts this. It's my understanding that foreplay doesn't necessarily have to end with intercourse. What if during foreplay, the woman experiences pain? Or a baby starts crying in the other room? If the couple ceases foreplay, is everything they've done to this point a sin?

[/quote]

Reread what I wrote. Purposely stimulating the genitals without intercourse is wrong. A couple intending to have intercourse that is interrupted for a reason such as you describe didn't purposely use their genital faculties in a disordered way.

[quote="Augusta_Sans, post:13, topic:196455"]
It's my understanding that, so long as the man does not reach climax during foreplay, foreplay does not HAVE to lead to sexual intercourse.

[/quote]

That is not correct. If the intention is to stimulate the genitals without intercourse, that is not foreplay, that is masterbation. Masterbation is a gravely immoral act.

Foreplay is stimulation for the purpose of intercourse (hence the "fore" in foreplay) not stimulation apart from intercourse. Stimulation apart from intercourse is masterbation.

[quote="Augusta_Sans, post:13, topic:196455"]

Since we're in disagreement here, I guess would encourage the OP to read Holy Sex! (or a similar Catholic-focused publication) if he wants to learn more on the topic. :thumbsup:

[/quote]

I would suggest they read the Catechism too.


#15

[quote="LittleDeb, post:6, topic:196455"]
Hi Rob, welcome to CAF,

Which answer do you want, the short answer or the long answer? :D

The short answer is no, there is nothing you can do during fertile times OR infertile times that allows for the husband's release outside of normal marital relations.

The long answer: NFP isn't an alternative to contraception. It is a way of living within the natural design of the human body. We are designed complementarily. That means that if the husband needs a "release" then you can't exclude the wife. Sexual activity involves ALL the sex organs, not just the male's.

The idea that we "need sex" is where the thinking can go off the rails. Chastity might be a trial, but it is certainly very do-able. This idea that it is also only a "male need" is very telling. Women can and do have very strong sex drives. What the drives are not, however is the same. The further idea that sperm buildup *must *be released is just plain factually wrong. (I am very married, and very happily so. No one ever died from abstinence.)

The question I would pose to you then, is why would you need a "release" that would exclude her? How is that living a marriage?

Please don't feel like I am pointing fingers or singling you out. These are questions that we all have to ask ourselves about marriage. If you prefer not to answer in a public forum, I totally understand, but if you are interested in further discussion I am now subscribed to this thread for updates.

Again, welcome to CAF. :wave: I hope your stay here is helpful and hopeful!

[/quote]

Little Deb, Great Post......:thumbsup:

Rob, I have to wait months on end and it makes my time together with my wife all the better.......:)


#16

Please, sir, teach me this method. I doubt you would hear as many people groaning under the weight of NFP if 3-5 days was all that was required.


#17

Actually, most are at least 7-10 days. It’s impossible for it to be 3 days unless there are some health issues.


#18

Regarding what is and isn't allowed during the fertile times TTA: all of the manuals I've read have stated that basically anything is ok as long as it doesn't leave either spouse all in a tizzy. So acts of foreplay are ok as long as they lead to the protection of chastity and there is no undue risk of orgasm outside of intercourse.


#19

Unfortunately with me and my wife it was always months upon months. Anyway, I was asking because I was trying to talk a couple I am friends with to switch from ABC to NFP but they aren’t willing to abstain. If I could refer them to another couple who had a better experience with NFP it might help. Is 7 days per cycle every cycle what is common? For almost everyone I’ve spoken with it is usually weeks to months of abstinence.


#20

[quote="KostyaJMJ, post:19, topic:196455"]
Unfortunately with me and my wife it was always months upon months. Anyway, I was asking because I was trying to talk a couple I am friends with to switch from ABC to NFP but they aren't willing to abstain. If I could refer them to another couple who had a better experience with NFP it might help. Is 7 days per cycle every cycle what is common? For almost everyone I've spoken with it is usually weeks to months of abstinence.

[/quote]

There are most definitely heath issues with that. 7-10 days is textbook. It is impossible for the ovulation phase to take a month. What might be going on are other issues that cause the body to look like its fertile, which might be able to be treated.


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