Shocking conversation Your Words of Wisdom

My good friend went to Catholic school for 12 yrs and told me her daughter (21 yrs old) has been going to a protestant church. She also told me her daughter has been sleeping with her boyfriend and is on BC to which i replied “Oh that’s too bad.”

She got a little huffy and told me she agrees with contraception and abortion and that there is nothing wrong with either of them and that----AND HERE’S the BIGGIE, God approves of both.
I asked her if she could give me her source because I could show her where God does not approve and that contraception is in fact an abortificient according to medical reports.

I tried to explain that tearing pages out of the bible because you don’t agree with what is written is against Catholicism and that that is what a cafeteria catholic does. Believe this, don’t believe that. She got a little loud and so I just clammed up. I have to say I was a little shocked by this exchange.

Then she said that she wasn’t going to argue about this and that all one has to do is be a good person and not hurt anyone and that’s all that God wants and all she believes.

Anyone have any suggestions about how I should have handled this, what I should have said or not said?

She is trying to justify her daughter’s behavior and excuse it and even though this girl went to Catholic school, there obviously was a big disconnect between what the Church teaching about all of the above and what went on in the home. You did nothing wrong and even though she gave you flack for standing up with the Church, you might have planted a seed which hopefully will grow and lead them back to the Church. don’t worry about it. this girl must be going to a liberal Protestant Church because many Protestant Church would disapprove of abortion and living together.

one more thought, you spoke from your heart and was loyal and supportive of what the Church teaches. In an improptu and unexpected situation, it’s hard to think and say and one can always try to second guess one self especially if the other person was not so receptive. I am sure that you are praying for them, pray that they rediscover their faith.

Yes, it’s very hard to think on your feet in situations like this. Keep them in your prayers and don’t second guess too much what you may have said or should have said. When she got loud you were right to back off…there’s no point continuing at that stage.

As for her assertion that “all one has to do is be a good person and not hurt anyone and that’s all that God wants”. Well, being a good person and not hurting anyone are in themselves admirable objectives. We believe the Church teaches us precisely how to go about acheiving these things. If the conversation were to continue, you could point out that abortion and “not hurting anyone” are mutually exclusive actions. You could also point out the overwhelming evidence that now exists to show that people who have sex before marriage and/or cohabitate are more likely to get divorced, more likely to be depressed, more likely to catch STDs, etc.

Sounds like you handled it about right. She brought up the subject. Your initial response was fairly gentle. She got defensive. You responded by bearing witness to your faith. Then things simmered down. It sounds like you are still friends.

It is very good that you are ready to speak out in favor of life whenever the opportunity arises, as it did on this occasion. Keep up the good work, and pray.

I too am praying for your friend and her daughter.

Wow, I had a similar thing happen to me. I was talking about how there is no divorce in the Catholic Church and a woman said that was not biblical. I asked her what she meant and she said God approved of divorce! I was stunned. She said it was in the old testament where God ‘divorced’ Israel.

There is not much you can do. People who have a conscience are embarrassed when their family members are publicly sinning. Therefore they jump through hoops to make the sin not a sin. Society has said that shame is a bad thing and making people feel shameful is being mean and in our culture today being mean is a very, very bad thing.

That is why we are ‘being mean’ when we judge someone’s shameful behavior.

She said she agrees with contraception and then said something about abortion? When did abortion enter the conversation? She may be afraid her daughter would get an abortion and kill her grandchild. Her daughter is having sex and it must be a worry.

Pray for her and if her daughter gets pregnant that she will get married instead of having an abortion.

She is practicing monotheistic deism. Pope Francis addressed this in Lumen Fidei, in which it was pointed out that it isn’t faith. Unfortunately, if your friend doesn’t want to hear the Truth your explanations will fall on deaf ears. Many people think faith sounds good until they realize there is a sacrifice that must be made (giving up our desires now for the promise of eternal life). That’s when they begin to justify evil, and often criticize those who do live the virtuous life. They don’t want to acknowledge their sins.

Totally agree with this comment…Plus - It can be kind of hard to offer too much advice based on a summary of a conversation we were not privy to.
Do keep her in your prayers and continue to be her friend…and like she said…don’t argue about it with her. Just love her.

As for her assertion that “all one has to do is be a good person and not hurt anyone and that’s all that God wants”. Well, being a good person and not hurting anyone are in themselves admirable objectives. We believe the Church teaches us precisely how to go about acheiving these things. If the conversation were to continue, you could point out that abortion and “not hurting anyone” are mutually exclusive actions. You could also point out the overwhelming evidence that now exists to show that people who have sex before marriage and/or cohabitate are more likely to get divorced, more likely to be depressed, more likely to catch STDs, etc.

Also agree with this…
I would add that your friend’s comment (bolded above) is something I would readily agree with her on. This can offer an opening for discussion.
The thing is - what constitutes a “good person” in the eyes of God?
She suggests that at least part of this is to “not hurt anyone”. Again - a very true and admirable point - but as underacloud points out…not hurting someone and abortion are mutually exclusive.

All of that said…I think you did fine and now the thing is to be her friend.

I don’t know if any of this qualifies as “words of wisdom”…but I dare say that there are many many Catholic families who have members believing strange things and making poor choices. The question we must ask ourselves is - are we going to take a hard line stand with these family members or are we going to try to keep on loving them as best we can.
I don’t mean that they should not know our (the Church’s) views on the matters. But what are the relative advantages of “cutting them off” versus keeping in touch?
In my own family I have seen both and I can tell you that the former can have disastrous results while the latter (while often more painful) at least offers a greater chance of repentance down the road because communication was kept open and Love given.

God is extremely patient with us…staying near even as we commit horrible sins…Should we not be equally patient with our friends and family as God is with us?

Sorry if the above is a bit off topic…but maybe it helps a little

Peace
James

JRKH: Words of wisdom and they helped very much thank you.

To all: Thanks for the replies as they are most helpful. The conversation was as I wrote—it was short—to the point and over before it began. Abortion came iinto the contraception conversation when I told her BC is an abortaficient. That’s when she said she agrees with abortion and So does God. Yikes!

Yes, you are right about her worrying her daughter is going down the wrong road—however my friend is very much a liberal in her thinking and tends to live in denial of all things that she does not want to see.

There really is a very slim chance that her daught might turn up pregnant because she is taking the pill (or was) and her boyfriend is in jail for armed robbery of all thiings. I know my friend is under a lot of stress because of all this and so I try to tred lightly with her.

She does though (as some Catholics) have a few disparaging comments concerning the Church and I for the most part talk about something else because I don’t care for those comments. It is interesting though that neither she nor her daughter cared about church, religion, God until things started falling apart in the home. Now, she told me she prays about the daughter situation and her daughter is at the protestant church praying for her boyfriends early release. Whatever it takes to get them thinking about God in their day.

Thanks for the replies.

“That’s when she said she agrees with abortion and So does God. Yikes!”

I heard on the radio (Relevant Radio) that the newest atheism is one in which someone thinks “Yes, there is a God and by golly He thinks just like I do!”

So sorry that you had to encounter that head on. However I agree with RedFox…

One of the biggest challenges for me since I reverted from 25 yrs an atheist is to learn to think with the Church and bend my will to God’s. I’m not all that successful, but at least I know that I am wrong, and the Church is right - at the conceptual level. I think this is a big part of faith. I will definitely pray for your friend and her daughter.

Thank you so much everyone----they do need all the prayers they can get especially now.

My sister is in the same boat as your friend. Her daughter is living with her BF but they don’t go to church. My sister is a very good Catholic and I know she worries about her but has about given up trying to change her.

My niece was diagnosed bipolar and they had quite a hard time with her when she went out on her own. She went from one living situation to another. With a girlfriend, to a group sharing costs, to living alone. She does not want children and probably thinks she cannot handle them, which may be true.

My sister is letting them live in her old house. She had it for a rental but let her daughter move in when she saw she had nowhere else to go. I asked her if it was ok with her that her daughter lived with her BF in the house. My sister said he keeps her settled and happy. I know it’s an excuse but she has been through a lot with her daughter and I decided not to say anymore.

She did say her daughter would like to get married but her bf doesn’t. At least he is a good man and someday they may do it. There is more to your friend’s story than meets the eye, I am sure. Praying is all one can do sometimes.

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