Shootings demonstrate need for gun control, USCCB says


#181

It doesn’t surprise me. The NYPD remembers the city of the seventies and eighties, when crime, including gun crime, really was out of control. They don’t want to see that happen again. Thus, they favor strict gun regulation, and strict enforcement of the laws.

That’s one reason why New York City isn’t Chicago.


#182

Brazil has the strictest gun laws but firearm homocide and suicide rates there are higher.

Nearly every single mass shooting that has happened in America was done in a gun-FREE zone.


#183

Are you really asking Father Dave to just go on an appeal to authority?


#184

But the rights protected there are inherent. And the right to self defense are inherent.
You saying we don’t have a right to self defense also doesn’t make it right.

While I respect to opinion of the Holy See, what other countries do remains irrelevant


#185

The right to defend yourself is inherent. The right to own a specific gun is not. Your saying so, or even the founding fathers saying so, does not make it so.


#186

@JonNC

I have not said that people do not have the right to defend themselves. I do not have the authority to say such a thing.

Let’s do a thought experiment: so people have a right to defend themselves. Does that mean we are allowed to have machine guns? What about drones with a weapon payload? What about killing somebody before we even know their intentions?

So a generic “right to defense” does not translate to a right to own a particular piece of hardware. It simply means the Church recognizes a person’s right to self-preservation. If that meant there was also a God-given right to specifically own X, Y, or Z firearm, then the Holy See would have spoken about the issue with authority, in the way it has on other subjects, such as abortion. The Church isn’t afraid to officially teach things that are contrary to popular opinion.

So people’s opinions towards guns are just that: an opinion.

The 18th century Enlightenment thinkers who wrote the US constitution called it an inalienable right. By the 16th century it was fashionable for intellectuals to speak on God’s behalf. But saying it doesn’t make it true. And lawmakers & judges can go to great lengths to interpret it.


#187

How would you enforce a law against abortion?


#188

It is true that the church has taken no position on what policies best address abortion, but she has taken a position on abortion itself which rules out certain positions, such as ones that legalize and justify it. She has no such comparable position on whether it is legal or moral to own a gun. Nor is the issue about the morality of murder (against the position of many that abortion is moral), but about what policies would help reduce homicides. That is not a moral question. If you think otherwise then lay out what moral choice we face in figuring out what proposals will work and which ones will not.

Abortion is a moral question and is being contested between those who consider it an evil and those who consider it an indispensable right. Gun control is not about the morality of murder. It is about identifying the efficacy of specific proposals to minimize gun violence.


#189

You continue to compare abortion to gun control when the real comparison is between policies toward abortion and policies toward gun violence. Or between abortion itself and gun violence itself. That is your mistake. As for ruling out certain positions, that is not clear either. There are other things that are evil but still legal, and the Church does not insist they be made illegal. So you are trying to make a special case out of abortion without an adequate reason.


#190

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/should-a-woman-be-punished-for-having-an-abortion


#191

why are you afraid of the truth? the riots portrayed were national news. what in it is false?


#192

what does discussing something with the bishop have to do with bravery?

are you implying the bishops will retaliate for someone voicing an opinion? are you saying the bishops are petty?

maybe we shouldn’t follow their opinions?


#193

because the kid may come in contact with a gun and when they play hollyweird with it accidents happen. you prefer they learn about guns from the tube, video games or their peers?

you teach them other safety precautions; this is just one more.


#194

it speaks to what is happening. it speaks to truth. what do you fear from it? what do you think they are trying to promote?


#195

Clinton said “I’m going to do everything I can to support the resistance,”

what resistance is she supporting?


#196

As a parent I decide what is a risk and what is not. Just like I don’t want government telling my son how to put on a condom, I don’t want government indoctrinating my kid into the joys of shooting a gun. As a parent I want to teach my kid to stay away from guns. Are you saying the government knows better than the parent what a kid should know about guns? I don’t mind the schools telling my kids that guns are dangerous, but I don’t want them getting hands-on training on how to aim and fire. That is not necessary to ensure safety.


#197

will catholic democrats be endorsing them also?

what about these platform items:

gay marriage
government funded abortion
recognized lgbt people … have the right to marry the person they love.
lgbt rights trump religious freedom
transgender bathrooms and showers
contraception mandate against faith-based groups like little sisters of the poor
no role of religion in government
appoint pro-abortion judges
be silent on school choice
etc.


#198

what gun control item put forward would have stopped any killing after? it is good to say no one cares but the reality is that nothing proposed to date would have stopped the next killing. we have enough feel good laws on the books.


#199

What are you talking about? Why are you asking me? I didn’t bring Hillary Clinton into this thread, I didn’t quote her, and I don’t know what she was talking about.


#200

do they watch tv? play video games?

they will learn about guns from somewhere and it would be best to learn gun safety at school not on the street.


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